Das UFO Phänomen mal rein wissenschaftlich betrachtet

@FrankD

Führt jetzt zu weit..

Um hier mal Material zu den Fällen in Belgien und Stephensville zur Verfügung zu stellen mit dem gearbeitet werden kann:

http://www.corsa-power.de/Die_Ereignisse_in_Belgien_1989-1990.htm
beinhaltet die offiziellen Erkenntnisse der Belgischen Luftwaffe








und hier der offizielle und umfangreiche Untersuchungsbericht der MUFON in Deutsch zum Vorfall in Stephanville: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=J7ES9D30

@Commonsense
Naja, ich halte die Argumentation" Das müssen wir nicht beachten, weil diesunddas nicht möglich ist" in diesem Falle für eine unerlaubte Abkürzung :)
Das "stärkste" Argument "Das Universum ist sooo riesig, warum sollten sie ausgerechnet hierhin fliegen" ist inzwischen sogar das Schwächst, da wir schin dabei sind, haufenweise Exoplaneten zu entdecken. Mit immer besseren Instrumenten (z.B. der geplante 42-M-Spiegel in Chile, der 2016 first light haben soll, kann man auch direkt die Eigenschaften der Atmosphären erkunden. In spätestens 100 Jahren haben wir Karten aller Planetensysteme in ein paar 100 LY Umkreis, wetten? :D

@FrankD

FrankD schrieb: In spätestens 100 Jahren haben wir Karten aller Planetensysteme in ein paar 100 LY Umkreis, wetten? :D

und was würde näher liegen, als irgendwann wenn die technologischen Voraussetzungen geschaffen sind unbemannte Sonden/Drohnen zu entsenden um bewohnte Planeten näher zu inspizieren , meinst du nicht? ;)

@UNKNOWNbrother
genau

@Commonsense

Commonsense schrieb:gerade weil wir ja gegen die Anwesenheit von Außerirdischen argumentieren

aha sehr objektiv & ergebnissoffen^^.

Es spricht nichts dagegen dass ET nicht hierherkommen könnte auch nicht in der Physik.. Wahrscheinlichkeiten lassen sich nicht wirklich berechnen aufgrund zu vielen unbekannten faktoren.

@smokingun
Sätz wott ai wrout....

Mal was zum Material, eine Gewehrkugel hält so 100.000g an Beschleunigung aus, ich denke es ist kein Problem eine Kugel zu konstruieren, die 60g aushält, ohne zu zerreisen. Dann wäre die Frage nach dem Antrieb. Von der Energie haben wir keine Probleme, wenn wir theoretische in der Lage sind 100% Materie in Energie zu wandeln.

Also vom Prinzip ist es auch nach aktueller Physik erstmal nicht unmöglich das es ein materielles Objekt mit 5m – 25m Durchmesser gibt, das mit 60g beschleunigt ohne das es zerrissen wird. Man müsste nun den Antrieb mal weiter hinterfragen. Wie viel Energie können wir heute pro kg erzeugen? Oder wie klein geht ein AKW und was wiegt das dann, welche Leistung hat das pro kg?

@Commonsense

Demnach wäre Unnachahmlich mit seinen 60 G bei 609m/s eine sehr genaue Schätzung gelungen.

Der hat nicht geschätzt, sondern gerechnet, mal eben durch 9,81 zu teilen ging gerade noch so. :D

@nocheinPoet

wie kommst du jetzt auf 60g? ich meine von welchem fall reden wir jetzt?

@smokingun

Einmal beschleunigte das Ziel von einer Geschwindigkeit von 240 km/h auf 1770 km/h, änderte dabei seine Höhe innerhalb von zwei Sekunden von 2743 auf 1524 m und stieg anschließend wiederum auf eine Höhe von 3352 m. Den F16-Piloten gelang es während des gesamten Manövers nicht, Sichtkontakt mit den Objekten aufzunehmen.

Quelle: Wikipedia: Belgische UFO-Welle#Sichtungen

In 2s von 2743m auf 1524m also 609,5m/s sind 2194,2km/h, das schaffen wir schon mit Flugkörpern auf der Erde, aber sicher nicht aus dem Stand. Wenn das Objekt als horizontal geflogen ist, und dann mit einem Schlag mit 2194,2km/h 2s lang gestiegen ist, um dann einfach weiter horizontal zu fliegen, würde so eine Geschwindigkeitsänderung wohl jedes Material das wir auf der Erde kennen zerreißen.

@nocheinPoet
könntest du bei Interesse mal diese Theorie prüfen / bzw. vielleicht kannst du ja damit was anfangen? http://thephysicsofufos.com/Book-introduction.html (Archiv-Version vom 24.08.2011)
ich kann das aufgrund mangelndem Fachwissen leider nicht beurteilen..

Wenn man der Erdgravitation antriebsgemäß entgegenwirken kann, dann auch kann die G-kraft im Innenraum

@Primpfmümpf
Unfug

@UNKNOWNbrother

achso sehr schön danke hier noch ein Auszug des offiziellen Luftwaffen berichts von Belgien :


March 30:

23 h 00: The supervisor responsible (MC) for the Glons CRC (Control Reporting Center) receives a phone call from Mr. A. Renkin, gendarmerie MDL, who certifies to see, from his home at Ramillies, three unusual lights towards Thorembais-Gembloux. These lights are distinctly more intense than stars and planets, they don't move and are located at the apexes of an equilateral triangle. Their color is changing: red, green and yellow. 23 h 05: The Glons CRC asks the Wavre gendarmerie to send a patrol at this place in order to confirm this sighting.

23 h 10: A new call from Mr. Renkin points out a new phenomenon: three other lights move towards the first triangle. One of these lights is far brighter than the others. The Glons CRC observes in the meantime an unidentified radar contact, about 5 km north of the Beauvechain airport. The contacts moves at about 25 knots towards west.

23 h 28: A gendarmerie patrol including, among others, Captain Pinson, is on the premises and confirms Mr. Renkin's sightings. Captain Pinson describes the observed phenomenon as follows: the bright points have the dimension of a big star(*); their color changes continually. The prevailing color is red; then it changes itself in blue, green, yellow and white, but not always in the same order. The lights are very clear, as if they were signals: this enables to distinguish them from stars.

23 h 30 - 23 h 45: The three new lights, in the meantime, have drawn closer to the first observed triangle. In their turn, after a series of erratic moves, they arrange themselves also in triangular formation. In the mean time, the Glons CRC observes the phenomenon on radar.

23 h 49 - 23 h 59: The Semmerkaze TCC/RP (Traffic Center Control/ Reporting Post) confirms in its turn to have a clear radar contact at the same position pointed out by the Glons CRC.

23 h 56: After prerequisite coordination with the SOC II, and since all conditions are fulfilled to make the QRA take off, the Glons CRC gives the scramble order to the 1 J Wing.

23 h 45 - 00 h 15: The bright points are still clearly observed from ground. Their respective position does not change. The whole formation seems to move slowly in comparison with the stars. The ocular witnesses on ground notice that the UFOs send from time to time brief and more intense luminous signals. In the mean time, two weaker luminous points are observed towards Eghezee. Those, as the others, have also brief and erratic moves.

March 31:

00 h 05: Two F-16, QRA of J Wing, AL 17 and AL 23, take off. Between 00 h 07 and 00 h 54, under control of the CRC, on the whole nine interception attempts have been undertaken by the fighters. The planes have had, several times, brief radar contacts on the targets designated by the CRC. In three cases, the pilots managed to lock on the target during a few seconds, which, each time, induced a drastic change in the comportment of the UFOs. In no case, the pilots have had a visual contact with the UFOs.

00 h 13: First lock on the target designated by the CRC. Position: "on the nose" 6 NM (Nautical Miles), 9000 feet, direction: 250. The target speed changes within minimum time from 150 to 970 knots, altitude coming down from 9000 to 5000 feet, then up to 11000 feet, and, shortly after, down to ground level. From this results a "break lock" after some seconds, the pilot losing the radar contact. The Glons radar informs, at the moment of the break lock, that the fighters are above the target position.

+/- 00 h 19 - 00 h 30: The Semmerkaze TCC as well as the Glons CRC have lost contact with the target. From time to time a contact appears in the region, but they are too few to have a clear track. In the meantime, the pilots contact on VHF the radio of the civilian air traffic, in order to coordinate their moves with the Brussels TMA. The radio contact on UHF is maintained with the Glons CRC.

00 h 30: AL 17 has a radar contact at 5000 feet, 20 NM away Beauvechain (Nivelles), position 255. The target moves at very high speed (740 knots). The lock on lasts during 6 seconds, and, at the break lock, the signal of a jamming appears on the scope.

+/- 00 h 30: The ground witnesses see three times the F-16 pass along. During the third pass, they see the planes turning in circles at the center of the great formation initially seen. At the same time, they notice the disappearance of the little triangle, while the brightest, western point of the big triangle moves very fast, probably up. This point emits intense red signals, in a repetitive way, during the maneuver. The two other points of the great triangle disappear shortly after. The clear points above Eghezee are no longer visible, and only the western brightest point of the triangle can be observed.

00 h 32: The Glons and Semmerkaze radars have a contact at 110 / 6 NM away Beauvechain, which heads for Bierset at 7000 feet and high speed. The registered speeds go from 478 to 690 knots. The contact is lost above Bierset. The Maastricht radar control center has had no contact with this UFO.

00 h 39 - 00 h 41: The Glons CRC mentions a possible contact at 10 NM from the planes, altitude 10000 feet. The pilots have a radar contact at 7 NM. Again is noticed an acceleration of the target from 100 to 600 knots. The lock on lasts only a few seconds, and the planes as well as the CRC lose the contact.

00 h 47: The Beauvechain RAPCON mentions a contact on its radar, at 6500 feet altitude, position away Beauvechain: 160 / 5 NM. The Glons CRC has also a contact on the same position. This one is observed up to 00 h 56.

00 h 45 - 01 h 00: Some attempts are undertaken in order to intercept the UFOs. The planes register only a few very short radar contacts. The ground observers see the last UFO disappear towards Louvain-la- Neuve (NNW). Around 01 h 00, the UFO has completely disappeared.

01 h 02: AL 17 and AL 23 quit the frequency of the Glons CRC and go back to their base.

01 h 06: The Jodoigne gendarmerie mentions to the Glons CRC that has just been observed a phenomenon like the one observed by Mr. Renkin at 23 h 15.

01 h 10: Landing of AL 17.

01 h 16: Landing of AL 23.

01 h 18: Captain Pinson, who in the meantime has gone to the Jodoigne gendarmerie, describes his observation as follows: four luminous white points at the apexes of a square, the center of which is Jodoigne. The UFO seen towards Orp-Jauche (SW of Jodoigne) is the brightest and has a yellow-red color. The luminous points move with jerky and short moves.

+/- 01 h 30: The UFOs lose their luminosity and seem to disappear in four distinct directions.

4. General information.

a. Meteo. The data mentioned by the Air Force Wing Meteo regarding the concerned area and during the night of March 30-31, 1990, are the following: Visibility: 8 to 15 km with clear sky. Wind at 10000 feet: 50/60 knots. A slight temperature inversion at ground, and another, as slight, at 3000 feet. These data are confirmed in Captain Pinson's report. He mentions also that the stars were clearly visible.

b. Because of lack of appropriate material, the ground observers could not make any photo or film of the phenomenon.

c. The UFO observed with a telescope is described as follows: a kind of sphere, a part of which is very luminous; a triangular shape could also be distinguished (For a more detailed observation, see Captain Pinson's report, in appendix H1).

5. Conclusion.

a. In contradiction with other pointed out UFO sightings, for the first time a radar contact has been positively observed, in correlation with different sensors of the Air Force (CRC, TCC, RAPCON, EBBE and F-16 radar), and this in the same area as visual observations. This has to be explained by the fact that the March 30-31 UFOs have been noticed at +/- 10000 feet altitude, whereas in the former cases there was always talk of visual contacts at very low altitude.

b. The visual evidences, on which this report is partially based, come from gendarmes in duty, whose objectivity cannot be questioned.

c. The UFOs, as soon as seen by the F-16 radar in the "Target Track" mode (after interception), have drastically changed their parameters. The speeds measured at that time and the altitude shifts exclude the hypothesis according to which planes could be mistaken for the observed UFOs. The slow moves during the other phases differ also from the moves of planes.

d. The fighter pilots never have had visual contact with the UFOs. This can be explained by the changes of luminous intensity, and even the disappearance of the UFOs, when the F-16 arrived in the neighborhood of the place where they were observed from the ground.

e. The hypothesis according to which it was an optical illusion, a mistake for planets, or any other meteorological phenomenon, is in contradiction with the radar observations, especially the 10000 feet altitude and the geometrical position of the UFOs between themselves. The geometrical formation tends to prove a program.

f. The first observation of the slow motion of the UFOs has been made roughly in the same direction and with the same speed as the wind. The direction differs by 30 degrees from the direction of the wind (260 degrees instead of 230 degrees). The hypothesis of sounding balloons is very improbable. The UFOs altitude during all this phase remained 10000 feet, whereas the sounding balloons go on higher and higher, up to burst at around 100000 feet. It is difficult to explain the bright lights and changes of color with such balloons. It is very improbable that balloons stay at the same altitude during more than one hour, while keeping the same position between themselves. Kn Belgium, during the radar observation, there was no meteorological inversion in progress. The hypothesis according to which it could be other balloons must be absolutely dismissed.

g. Though speeds greater than the sound barrier have been measured several times, not any bang has been noticed. Here also, no explanation can be given.

h. Though the different ground witnesses have effectively pointed out eight points in the sky, the radars have registered only one contact at the same time. The points have been seen at a distance one from another sufficient for them to be distinguished by the radars also. No plausible explanation can be put forward.

i. The hypothesis of air phenomena resulting from projection of holograms(*) must be excluded too: the laser projectors should have been normally observed by the pilots on flight. Moreover, the hologram cannot be detected by radar, and a laser projection can be seen only if there is a screen, like clouds for example. Here, the sky was clear, and there was no significant temperature inversion.

@nocheinPoet

achso danke aber da waren grosse Triangels am werk und vermutlich zusätzlich spheren oder spheren bildeten das dreieck. jedenfalls waren es mehrere Objekte ^^.wikipedia ist eigentlich nicht so gut geeignet bei dem Thema..der artikel bezieht sich auf ufo casebook und der fall setzt sich aus Radars am Boden und Flightradars versch trackings der Objekte zusammen da gabs auch in der F16 sowas als es die Objekte verfolgte :

The pilots of the fighters reported that the UFO had made maneuvers at speeds beyond the capability of their technology, and once the radar showed the craft drop from 10,000 to 500 feet in 5 seconds!

http://ufocasebook.com/Belgium.html








diese zusammenfassung ist besser:

http://www.ufo-und-alienforum.de/thread.php?threadid=8394

eigentlich findet man die doks immer bei ufo evidence aber bei mir ist die seite grad down..

smokingun schrieb:Wahrscheinlichkeiten lassen sich nicht wirklich berechnen aufgrund zu vielen unbekannten faktoren.

Das ist mit Verlaub, Blödsinn.

@Antiphanes
Erklär...

Als Beispiel Pokern.
Da werden Wahrscheinlichkeiten genau berechnet.
Siehe Pokerstove
http://www.pokerstove.com/

@Antiphanes
ähhh, du bist mit Verlaub, disqualifiziert... ;)

Und du antwortest schneller , als du Denken kannst.