Amanda Knox

@pfiffi
erst gab es doch noch die satanischen Riten ! nicht vergessen ! erst danach kamen die Sexspiele.

@Nscho-Tschi die satanischenRiten kamen glaube ich allein aus der (allerdings angefixten) Presse...

chelsi schrieb:Und nun ein Beispiel, wie man uns unter Mithilfe der Medien und Amandas Agentur Gogarty Marriott manipulieren kann.http://elitedaily.com/news/world/the-media-and-the-amanda-knox-case/764282/

Auch wenn ich mich wiederhole- der Artikel ist (leider) gut.

Autsch!
Ist es nicht schön zu sehen, wie Selene Nelson "themurderofmeredithkercher.com" als Hort der Wahrheit zitiert und "Armes Schwarzes Guede" hier in Schutz nimmt:

Before doing so, however, I must make one point very simply: Rudy Guede is a convicted liar and killer. He is in prison, where he belongs. I take pains to point this out because, frequently, those who dare highlight the bias against Guede are immediately branded as his supporter.
[...]
However, my absolute belief in his guilt has no bearing on an untold and hugely important fact: Guede has been unfairly demonized in the press for nearly seven years.

Es ist doch faszinierend, dass Leute bereit sind, die Beweise gegen Guede, entweder komplett zu ignorieren, oder seine Beteiligung (100%) an dem Mord an Meredith Kercher gegen 0% herunterzuspielen... und Berichte, dass es einen Täter und Beweise gegen ihn gibt als "unfair demonization" deklarieren...

@pfiffi
nee, die kamen von dem ersten Staatsanwalt, (mir fällt gerade der Name nicht ein). Das war der, der mit dem Monster von Florenz zu tun hatte.

@alle
Mäßigt euch, bevor hier dicht gemacht wird bzw. lasst euch nicht durch einzelne runterziehen. Auf diesem Halbsatz-Niveau macht eine Diskussion keinen Sinn mehr.

@chelsi

Kannst du oder willst du die Frage nicht beantworten?

Nscho-Tschi schrieb:mir fällt gerade der Name nicht ein

Mignini

Siegfrieden schrieb:@alle
Mäßigt euch, bevor hier dicht gemacht wird bzw. lasst euch nicht durch einzelne runterziehen. Auf diesem Halbsatz-Niveau macht eine Diskussion keinen Sinn mehr.

Okay.

Aber wenn ich @chelsi verzweifelt nach einem beleg dafür frage, dass Sollecito Knox Alibi zurückgezogen habe vor Gericht - was chelsi ja unstreitig behauptet hat mit seinem Verweis auf ein gerichtsprotokoll -, und da kommt dann nix, gar nix...was soll mir dazu8 noch einfallen?

ich habe konzise, sachliche Fragen nach Knox/Sollecitos mögliches Motiv gestellt. beide im Honeymoon, beide Anfang/Mitte/Ende 20, "wo das Leben anfänglich war/und nach weiterem schmeckte", wie Rühmkorf es so herrlich sagt. haben wir alle auch erlebt (ich bin weit in den 40ern). Welches Motiv? Warum? Warum ermordet eine US-Studentin und ein glücklich seit einer Woche mit ihr liierter Ita-Student eine UK-Studentin? Eine UK-Studentin, mit der die US-Studetin sich nachweisbar liebesvolle SMSs geschrieben hat? Man erläutere mir das Motiv! Aber da kommt nix!

Ich habe auch noch nie gehört, dass ein Pärchen, das eine Woche verliebt ist und ein relatives braves Vorleben hat, plötzlich Mordgelüste hat.

@pfiffi
ich hab dir den Link doch geschickt, was war daran jetzt wieder verkehrt? Lesen mußt Du ihn schon selber. Außerdem wolltest Du eine Quelle dafür, daß Sollecito ihr das Alibi abgenommen hat, von Gerichtsprotokoll war nicht die Rede. Und eigentlich wolltest Du überhaupt nicht mehr mit mir schreiben. Also entscheide Dich einfach was Du haben willst und drück Dich genauer aus.

chelsi schrieb:ich hab dir den Link doch geschickt, was war daran jetzt wieder verkehrt? Lesen mußt Du ihn schon selber.

Mein Posteingang zeigt keinen. Schick noch mal. Oder besser: Stell ihn hier ein. Haben alle was davon.

oder meintest Du etwa jenes journalistische Ergüßchen, welches Du hier zitioert hast?

@pfiffi Raffaele's Constantly Changing Alibi

aus: The murder of meredith kercher: sorry, ihr mögt die Seite nicht, es gibt aber etliche andere Seiten die den gleichen Inhalt bringen. Diese waren am ausführlichsten.

Version 1.0
Raffaele Sollecito originally told the police he was with Amanda Knox at her cottage on the day of the murder, and that after Meredith left he and Amanda went for a long walk, before heading to his apartment for dinner. They watched the movie Amélie while they made and ate dinner. Knox was supposed to work but there is some doubt about her intention to show up for her shift.[1] Knox received a text message from her boss that she deleted but the content is accepted as being something along the lines that Knox shouldn't come in. Knox and Sollecito turned off their mobile phones so that they wouldn't be bothered, and spent the night on the computer. They slept until about 10:30 am, when Knox left to have a shower and fetch a mop from her place.
Version 1.1
The next day Raffaele told the same story to Kate Mansey of the Sunday Mirror, but added now that they went to a party before going to his apartment.
Version 2.0
On November 5th Raffaele was called into the police station to answer questions regarding his original statement. Raffaele was having dinner with friends, and only went to the police station afterwards, arriving at 10:40 pm. Amanda came with him, even though her presence was not requested.[2] The head of the homicide unit Monica Napoleoni spoke to Knox who complained that she was tired and Napoleoni told her that she could go home but Knox insisted on waiting for Raffaele Sollecito.[3]
Raffaele was questioned while Amanda stayed in the waiting room of the police station. While Knox was waiting she spoke on the phone with Filomena Romanelli concerning the living arrangements.[4] She was also seen by several police officers doing cartwheels and the splits.[5] Sollecito was confronted with his phone records which showed that he called the emergency number at 12:51 pm, but the Postal Police stated that they had arrived at the cottage shortly after 12:30 pm. Confronted with this Raffaele quickly changed his story.
Amanda and I went into town at around 6 pm, but I don't remember what we did. We stayed there until around 8.30 pm or 9 pm. At 9 pm I went home alone and Amanda said that she was going to Le Chic because she wanted to meet some friends. We said goodbye. I went home, I rolled myself a spliff and made some dinner, but I do not remember what I ate. At about 11 pm per his usual custom my father called the house and Amanda had not yet returned. I spent the next two hours on the computer until Amanda arrived at 1 am[6][7]
He went to say that the following morning when Amanda left to have a shower, she asked to borrow some plastic bags to put dirty clothing in.[8] He also made it clear that he had lied in his earlier statement at Amanda's request.
In my previous statement I told a load of rubbish because Amanda had convinced me of her version of the facts and I didn't think about the inconsistencies[9][10]
Raffaele also stated that they slept until about 10:30 am when Knox left to have a shower, and he then went back to sleep.[11][12]
This statement caused Amanda Knox to change her story, and claim that she was at the cottage when the murder happened. Knox also falsely accused an innocent man in that statement.[13]
Version 3.0
Raffaele once again changes his story when he is asked to make a statement at his preliminary hearing. His story now is that he was at home, but that he does not remember whether Knox was with him.[14]
Version 3.1
In his prison diary entry for 7 Nov 2007, Raffaele writes at length concerning his confusion about the events of that night. He says that he and Amanda began to smoke cannabis at about 6 pm, and "from this moment come my problems, because I have confused memories".[15] He says that he presumes that he and Amanda had done some grocery shopping, before returning to his home around 8-8:30 pm, where they smoked more cannabis. He doesn't remember at what time he ate, but is certain that Amanda ate with him. He remembers surfing the Internet for a bit, maybe watching a film, and that his father called him. He thinks Amanda went out to the pub where she usually worked, but doesn't remember how much time she was absent. On the other hand, he remembers that she told him later that the pub was closed, and so doubts that she was absent. He is, however, sure that Amanda slept with him that night.[16]
During the trial, Raffaele would not confirm that Knox was with him on the evening of the murder. He elected to not testify and, while he did make several spontaneous statements, he never corroborated Knox's alibi.
Version 4.0
At the conclusion of the appeal in October 2011, Sollecito finally confirmed Knox's alibi, and in his final spontaneous statement explicitly asserted that Amanda Knox was at his apartment on the night of the murder. Four years after telling the police that she was not with him, and had gone out alone, and also that she had asked him to lie for her, Raffaele came full circle and now told the court that Amanda Knox could not have murdered Meredith Kercher, because she was at his apartment the entire night.
Version 4.1
After his release Raffaele wrote a book, and while he mostly sticks to the version of Knox being at his apartment, he does at one point return to the claim that he can't be certain that she did not go out.
Version 5.0
On July 1, 2014, Sollecito and his lawyers held a press conference in which he distanced himself from Knox, drew attention to inconsistencies in Knox's account of the evening of the murder, and stated that he could not account for Knox's movements in the early part of the evening. He did however say that they spent the night together at his home, although he couldn't remember the earlier period on account of his having smoked hashish.
He said, "I have always believed in Amanda’s innocence but I have to take account of what the appeal court judges wrote in their sentence. [...] I recognise that there are certain anomalies that emerge from the court papers."[17]
Why Raffaele's Alibi is a Lie

@pfiffi
Ich fürchte @chelsi hat den verlinkten Artikel noch nicht einmal verinnerlicht. Zumindest legt mir das die Tatsache nahe, daß sie nicht in der Lage war, mir die überzeugendsten Argumente daraus in eigenen Worten zu schildern. Es genügt einfach, daß die Artikelschreiberin extrem gegen Frau Knox eingestellt ist, um ihn für toll zu halten, ihn zu verlinken und zu allem Überfluss auch noch komplett hier hinein zu kopieren (als könnten wir einem Link nicht folgen).

Das typische Propagandaverhalte, daß sie ja so gern der PR-Agentur der Familie Knox unterstellt.

Dabei strotzt dieser Artikel nur so von Irrtümern.

@Quiron
ach Quiron, mach Dir mal keine Sorgen um mich. Ich schreib jetzt gerade mit Pfiffi. Daher kann ich Deine Anfragen gerade nicht beantworten.

@chelsi

The murder of meredith kerchief- sorry, ihr mögt die Seite nicht, es gibt aber etliche andere Seiten die den gleichen Inhalt bringen.

Gibt es darunter eine seriöse? Ich meine eine, die sich nicht auf Themurderof... bezieht?

@chelsi

chelsi schrieb:ach Quiron, mach Dir mal keine Sorgen um mich. Ich schreib jetzt gerade mit Pfiffi. Daher kann ich Deine Anfragen gerade nicht beantworten.

Ausreden, Ausreden, Ausreden, das kennen wir ja schon.

Ist es dein Bestreben, hier in schnellerer Frequenz Lügen, Halbwahrheiten und Falschinformationen von solchen Schmuddelseiten zu verbreiten, als es gelingt, sie zu widerlegen? Ich meine, das geht ja schon fast seit deinen ersten Beiträgen so, wie ich dich kürzlich erst wieder erinnert habe. Ist das deine Vorstellung von "sich hinterfragen"?

@Quiron
das mußt Du beurteilen. Wir haben sehr unterschiedliche Ansichten darüber, wer welche Quelle mag

Zäumen wir das Pferd von hinten auf.

chelsi schrieb:At the conclusion of the appeal in October 2011, Sollecito finally confirmed Knox's alibi, and in his final spontaneous statement explicitly asserted that Amanda Knox was at his apartment on the night of the murder. Four years after telling the police that she was not with him, and had gone out alone, and also that she had asked him to lie for her, Raffaele came full circle and now told the court that Amanda Knox could not have murdered Meredith Kercher, because she was at his apartment the entire night.

Vor vier jahren also hat er der Polizei gesagt, sie sei nicht mit ihm gewesen. denn

chelsi schrieb:Amanda and I went into town at around 6 pm, but I don't remember what we did. We stayed there until around 8.30 pm or 9 pm. At 9 pm I went home alone and Amanda said that she was going to Le Chic because she wanted to meet some friends. We said goodbye. I went home, I rolled myself a spliff and made some dinner, but I do not remember what I ate. At about 11 pm per his usual custom my father called the house and Amanda had not yet returned. I spent the next two hours on the computer until Amanda arrived at 1 am[6][7]
He went to say that the following morning when Amanda left to have a shower, she asked to borrow some plastic bags to put dirty clothing in.[8] He also made it clear that he had lied in his earlier statement at Amanda's request.
In my previous statement I told a load of rubbish because Amanda had convinced me of her version of the facts and I didn't think about the inconsistencies[9][10]
Raffaele also stated that they slept until about 10:30 am when Knox left to have a shower, and he then went back to sleep.[11][12]
This statement caused Amanda Knox to change her story, and claim that she was at the cottage when the murder happened. Knox also falsely accused an innocent man in that statement.[13]

Aha (übrigens: das Gerichtsprotokoll fehlt immer noch!)

Preisfrage, sherlock: Warum sollte jemand, der zu Unrecht angeklagt ist, seine Ex-Freundin stützen? Warum lädt Sollecito nicht die ganze Schuld auf Hexen-foxi-knoxi ab? Ab sofort und immerdar? Die beziehung ist beendet; der Italiener ist aber immer noch der Hexe aus der neuen Welt verfallen, oder? Er könnte sich jetzt doch hin stellen (ich befürchte bei dieser ungerechten Justiz fast, er wird es tun!) und sagen: hey, ich war das nicht! Das war die Hexe da! Die aus Seattle!

Warum tut er es nicht? Vielleicht, weil er weiß, dass sowohl er als auch sie völlig unschuldig sind? Er hätte sowas von lockerundeasy aus der Sach' rauskommen können.

@pfiffi
@Quiron
Gute Nacht. Muß um 4.30 Uhr raus.

@Nscho-Tschi

Nscho-Tschi schrieb:erst gab es doch noch die satanischen Riten ! nicht vergessen ! erst danach kamen die Sexspiele.

Zur Klärung, wieder mal ein Wort, an dem sich die ganze Sache aufhängt, Staatsanwalt Giuliano Mignini hat in seinem Schlussplädoyer http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Mignini-Closing.pdf (Archiv-Version vom 01.03.2015) vor Richter Micheli folgendes gesagt:

pag. 46 partendo dalla riga 12: “E va sottolineato che, in ogni caso, per soggetti morbosamente attratti dalla commissione di sesso e di violenza, è tutt’altro che inverosimile la connessione di tale progetto alla tradizione di Halloween, perché se è vero che la notte tra il 31 ottobre e il primo novembre era passata (e Meredith l’aveva trascorsa con le sue amiche connazionali), è altrettanto vero che, alle 21 circa del primo novembre e per le successive tre ore, si fosse ancora nella giornata di Ognissanti e che quello che non si fosse potuto realizzare nella notte di vigilia della Festività dei Santi, si potesse realizzare nella notte di passaggio da quest’ultima alla Festività dei Defunti.”

pag. 49 partendo dal rigo 17: “Inoltre, i tre e soprattutto Sollecito, erano tutti dipendenti dalle suggestioni “culturali” erotico – omicide di cui si è parlato e quella notte era ancora la giornata della Festività dei Santi, “erede” cattolica del capodanno celtico Samhain, con tutte le implicazioni che hanno il loro punto centrale nella vigilia della Festa, cioè nella notte tra il 31 ottobre e il primo novembre.”

Das Wort an dem sich die ganze Diskussion aufhängt ist "satanisch", dieses Wort hat Staatsanwalt Mignini nicht benutzt, er bringt den Mord allerdings in den Zusammenhang mit "Halloween" (ist das nicht 'ne Metal Band? ;-) ) , Samhain und Allerheiligen und Allerseelen. Wortklauberei :-(