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Christiane F./Wir Kinder vom Bahnhof Zoo: Realitätsgehalt

Christiane F./Wir Kinder vom Bahnhof Zoo: Realitätsgehalt

02.04.2019 um 23:45
Hi eberybody, and firstly, please, forgive me to write in english, i can't speak german at all, unfortunately. I read the entire thread, that is fascinating and amazing, automatically translated.

I wandered many times if the "Christiane F. thing" was totally real or mainly manufactured. We learnt few things about her former friends, all the same little things about Babette Döge who had an incredible destiny: Old pig's 12 y.o prostitute, she's been spiraled in home-made shot pornographic threesomes with her best friend Catherine "Stella" Schabeck, participated to orgies, been kidnapped, tortured and raped during a withdrawal by a Kurfurstenstrasse's cruel pimp and several tramps and winos, for three days and then... came back to walk the streets at the same place, as the Kinderstrich's queen she was known as in those days.

Then, i've been totally shoked to read here that, actually, the real event that helped Christiane to be kept from Berlin and its scene was a collective rape!
I trust Kai Hermann, obviously, but i wander if that was made by the Sound's staff Christiane was terrified of or by the gangster Piko who threatened her, her last morning in Berlin, november 1977.

I'd like to talk about all those things and learn more things. I never stopped looking for more documentation since i have the internet. I must admit the first stuff i looked for in 2000 on the internet was "Christiane F." Crazy innit?

Many thanks advance, and, sorry, again, for my language.

Gut nacht!


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Christiane F./Wir Kinder vom Bahnhof Zoo: Realitätsgehalt

03.04.2019 um 09:57
Ingrid15 schrieb:I trust Kai Hermann, obviously, but i wander if that was made by the Sound's staff Christiane was terrified of or by the gangster Piko who threatened her, her last morning in Berlin, november 1977.
Darüber werden wir wohl nichts erfahren. Abgesehen von Kai Hermann 2013 hat, soweit ich das überblicke, dieses Ereignis noch nie jemand erwähnt. Vermutlich werden das Originalmanuskript oder sogar die Interview-Tonbänder noch irgendwo existieren - vielleicht im Archiv des "Stern"-Verlages oder im Privatbesitz von Rieck oder Hermann -, aber es dürfte so gut wie unmöglich sein, da heranzukommen.

Interessanter als das "wer" finde ich in diesem Zusammenhang, dass Hermann 35 Jahre gewartet hat, bevor er öffentlich gemacht hat, dass diese und andere seines Erachtens wichtige Passagen, die als "zu drastisch galten", aus dem Buch herausgestrichen wurden. Das hätte er ja auch schon 1978 erzählen können. Aber dann wäre von Anfang an klar gewesen, dass das Buch eben nicht der völlig authentische, "schonungslose" Bericht ist, als der es daherkommt. Insofern ist die hier breits geäußerte Kritik am Profitinteresse des Verlags (und zumindest mittelbar auch der Autoren, die dem Redigieren nicht entgegengetreten sind) sicherlich zutreffend: Das reale Geschehen wurde so angepasst, dass zwar der nötige Gruselfaktor erhalten bleibt, das Ganze aber nicht so unappetitlich und schockierend wird, dass es sich nicht mehr gut verkauft.


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Christiane F./Wir Kinder vom Bahnhof Zoo: Realitätsgehalt

03.04.2019 um 10:46
Erdbeerhannes schrieb:Das reale Geschehen wurde so angepasst, dass zwar der nötige Gruselfaktor erhalten bleibt, das Ganze aber nicht so unappetitlich und schockierend wird, dass es sich nicht mehr gut verkauft.
Wie hiess noch mal das Magazin, das die Hitler-Tagebücher vermarkten wollte? :D


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Christiane F./Wir Kinder vom Bahnhof Zoo: Realitätsgehalt

03.04.2019 um 15:35
Hello and thank you for your replies,

Actually, the impression that it leaves to me is that the book is not the rough and authentic narrative of the girl but a very well worked fabric for logical and obvious commercial reasons. The first is the main character: a lot of suffering, but out comes a sort of image of the glitter and underground baby-queenpin, beautiful, dominant, skilful, cunning, glamour to death. Completely modern and trendy to the bone!

Christiane in "Wir Kinder (...)" is smarter and more sensitive than her friends. She's shown as more pudic, prudent and clever than Babsi and Stella who were younger than her, and pretty too, she did not have to hook johns seriously to earn money quickly, moreover, she is too beautiful and too classy for that! The others sell themselves for few marks, and she, receives a lot of money and tributes, totally refusing to sleep with men. She decides, she directs, she is dominant, alone, fragile, young, on the pavement, at night in front of rich and confused men. She stands up, she’s a fighter despite the dangers, wins the game, even full of heroin. What an image!

This is why Christiane’s aura is harnessed with invincibility (this is the most important between the lines). Stella is worn out and heartless, Babsi is a no-limit homeless girl up for every hard stuffs, almost disgusting and suicidal, Detlef is a little servile and ambiguous, but Christiane always keeps her head up. Facing the customers by car from Kurfurstenstrasse, facing the customers of the Zoo, facing Heinz, facing Jurgen the man who organizes orgies, facing Strotter Max: she is always smart, clever, perceptive, lucid, introspective,dominant, almost too pudic and too neat. She’s a half shade prostitute, not at all made of the same wood as all the other girls "completely worn-out girls, forced to sleep with clients". She's not that girl that permit anyone to screw her in anyway (really? Seriously?) She does not have to, she screams them and remains beautiful, desirable, fresh, inaccessible, an underground unreachable diva.

What better way to create a fascinating character: deep in the mud, she comes out whiter than the swan.

The choice of the icon was very wise too, i'd have done the same one. Out of 10,000 junkies in Berlin in 1978, they chose by far the most beautiful, the most photogenic, the most suitable for gimmicks. She always wanted to be a little star, in primary school, high school, Haus der Mitte, Zoo station, on the subway platforms. She says it herself "In the middle of all these junkies, i walk like the star among the stars, i find myself wonderful" (and this was repeated in her song "wunderbar").

The publishing house could not dream best ambassador in the long term, destructive, borderline, loving cameras, speaking without lighthouse, with a face of madonna, girly, coquettish, flirtacious, attractive, worldly, playing the game indefinitely.

If you look at the german press articles that we find, this vein is inexhaustible, not a month without the interview of a stranger declaring "I sold dope to Christiane F. at Sound disco", "I met Christiane F. in a methadone clinic", "I met Christiane F. every day when i was a junky homeless", "Christiane F.'s dog bit me at Hermannplatz".

Then, there are too many inconsistencies, even between the first book and the second book, which is shocking. In 1977, she had to make two customers a day to buy two quarters of a gram of heroin (80 marks in those days) she even calculated her monthly income by explaining that at fifteen years, she earned more money than a commercial director by not getting too tired. When she tries to commit suicide in public toilets at fifteen, she thinks half a gram will be enough, and in the second book, she naturally tells that in 1977 she took four grams of heroin a day! It doesn’t match at all. And it’s impossible, the dope was too strong and too expensive. Physically, she would not have lasted, and even by prostituting herself for 20 hours a day, she would not have been able to afford it. It is incoherent. These are punchy sentences to shock but written without thinking that readers will have doubts. Too much!

In conclusion, i think that some parts have been voluntary "forgotten", others have been enhanced, others have been diminished in order to obtain a perfect version of this history transformed into an urban and decadent fairy tale, accessible to all. Everyone loves the urban story of the fucked-up girl discovered on rainy day in the subway by a talent scout, who becomes super-model. Christiane F., that’s it, an icon of the subculture from the last 70s to these days, with the background of hard drugs, pimps, smelly toilets, sordid stations, Bowie, male prostitutes, whipping, slashes, lashes and sexy garters on teeny skinny bodies.So punky chic, and Heroin chic!

I always thought that Christiane had become an employee of the publishing house, having to carry out her duties as ambassador, even when she no longer understood the interest. This is her job, she is paid for it, the trademark "Christiane F." is still at the top in 2019 (first book, film, second book, interviews, reedition of the film in blu-ray, theater pieces, Soundtrack of the film sold on many web platforms, fashion collections with the imagery "Christiane F". exploited on the catwalks, adverts ( from Raf Simmons in Spring/Summer 2018 to 70s Gucci chic couture clothings in 2016, passing by casual Vans shoes in limited edition, with the face of Natja Brunckhorst) etc... And i don't even talk about all the YT channels, the bloggers who share Christiane's songs and movies!
Angelina Jolie is ambassador for Dior, Christiane for Alex Springer. Trash and glamour.

In other words, in 2019, the image "Christiane F." still brings a lot of money to the world’s largest industries!

Last point: Christiane’s mother was executive secretary at Alex Springer publishing, is it a coincidence?


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Christiane F./Wir Kinder vom Bahnhof Zoo: Realitätsgehalt

06.04.2019 um 20:33
Ingrid15 schrieb am 03.04.2019:I always thought that Christiane had become an employee of the publishing house, having to carry out her duties as ambassador, even when she no longer understood the interest. This is her job, she is paid for it, the trademark "Christiane F." is still at the top in 2019 (first book, film, second book, interviews, reedition of the film in blu-ray, theater pieces, Soundtrack of the film sold on many web platforms, fashion collections with the imagery "Christiane F". exploited on the catwalks, adverts ( from Raf Simmons in Spring/Summer 2018 to 70s Gucci chic couture clothings in 2016, passing by casual Vans shoes in limited edition, with the face of Natja Brunckhorst) etc... And i don't even talk about all the YT channels, the bloggers who share Christiane's songs and movies!
Angelina Jolie is ambassador for Dior, Christiane for Alex Springer. Trash and glamour.

In other words, in 2019, the image "Christiane F." still brings a lot of money to the world’s largest industries!

Last point: Christiane’s mother was executive secretary at Alex Springer publishing, is it a coincidence?
"Wir Kinder vom Bahnhof Zoo" ist nicht bei Axel (sic!) Springer erschienen, sondern im "Stern", der gehört zu Gruner + Jahr und damit zum Bertelsmann-Konzern. Insofern würde ich sagen, dass es tatsächlich ein Zufall ist, dass die Mutter bei Springer gearbeitet hat; zumal ich die Geschichte, wonach Horst Rieck Christiane Felscherinow bei dem Prozess gegen Heinz G. eher zufällig getroffen habe, für glaubhaft halte. Es ist wohl kaum jemand durch Berlin spaziert und hat alle Drogenabhängigen abgeklappert, bis er ein süßes Mädel gefunden hat, aus dessen Geschichte sich eine gute Story stricken ließ. Ich würde eher sagen, es war Zufall, dass Rieck auf eine Drogenabhängige getroffen ist, auf die das zutraf, und dass er den richtigen Riecher hatte, um die Sache zu vermarkten. Und dass sie sich so gut würde vermakten lassen, damit hatte wohl keiner der Beteiligten gerechnet.

1978 konnte man dem "Stern" und den Autoren sicherlich vorwerfen, mit dem Elend dieser Leute Geld zu verdienen (wobei zumindest Christiane Felscherinow dadurch ja auch gut verdient hat), aber das ist jetzt auch mehr als 40 Jahre her und ohnehin nicht mehr zu ändern. Aus literarischer und zeithistorischer (böse Zungen mögen ergänzen: aus voyeuristischer) Perspektive würde es mich natürlich interessieren, was am Manuskript vor der Veröffentlichung noch so geändert wurde. Aber das Buch, so, wie es ist, halte ich trotzdem für ein gelungenes Stück Literatur, und den Film finde ich großartig (wenngleich es schade ist, dass man heute nur noch eine geschnittene Fassung bekommt - da fand man wohl auch einiges "zu hart" für den Zuschauer). Die geplante Amazon-Prime-Serie finde ich allerdings unnötig; anschauen werde ich sie vermutlich trotzdem.


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