Ahmose schrieb:Aber die Fascho-Muslime-Mordbrenner findet ihr da nicht. Oder wie auch immer ihr die Iraner darstellen mögt. Da sucht mal lieber bei unseren Verbündeten und Freunden.
So lange ich hier mitlese, hat hier noch kein Mensch, der das Regime im Iran kritisiert, "die Iraner" derart hingestellt.
Ganz im Gegenteil bekommt die Opposition hier regelmäßig Sympathien, das demokratische Potenzial des Iran gegenüber den meisten arabischen Staaten wird betont und die Bevölkerung von einem allumfassenden Antiamerikanismus freigesprochen, den Leute regelmäßig darauf projezieren.
Was für ein dummer und ekliger Strohmann.
Dass Saudi-Arabien die eigentlich Schlimmen sind, darf natürlich nicht fehlen. Nur hat hier meines Wissens nach auch nie jemand Saudi-Arabien verharmlost und realtiviert, obwohl das Land hier ständig auf dem Tisch landet, um die Umtriebe der Mullahs zu relativieren.
Aber es ist ja auch schlicht nicht ernst zu nehmen, wenn man über Saudi-Arabien nur im Kontext des Iran redet, da man damit dann schlicht nur dumme anti-westliche Agitation betreibt und wenn der Iran und Saudi-Arabien morgen die Lager wechseln würden, würdest du uns erzählen, was der Iran für ein entsetzliches Land ist und wie toll dagegen Saudi-Arabien.
Ahmose schrieb:Tatsächlich waren wir auch auf einem guten Weg den Iran dazu zu bringen, eben keine A-Waffen zu bauen.
Doch? Dann kannst du sicher die ganzen handfesten Belege dahingehend verlinken.
Ahmose schrieb:Und auch den Antisemiten könnte man den Wind aus den Segeln nehmen, wenn endlich mal ein Friedensplan für Palästina umgesetzt würde.
Ja, "Befreiung Palästina '48" vllt.
Ahmose schrieb:Na ja, und wenn du zwischen Taliban und Hisbollah keine Unterschiede siehst, dann gute Nacht. Das ist doch offensichtlich.
Ich schließe mich da
@Jedimindtricks an. Ich möchte ebenfalls mal detailiert und mit Belegen erfahren, was die Hisbollah weniger verurteilenswert macht.
Denn das suggerierst du ja.
Es war auch glaube ich Nasrallah, der sagte, es wäre ganz gut, wenn sich alle Juden in Israel versammeln, das erspare die Mühe, ihnen weltweit nachzustellen #Friedensplan
Aber die können ja quatschen, was sie wollen.
Ahmose schrieb:Aber gut, vielleicht liegt es ja an der Perspektive. Immerhin sitzen USA und Taliban ja am Verhandlungstisch.
Das ist alleine deiner Perspektive geschuldet.
Schließlich verharmlost hier kein Mensch die Taliban, ganz im Gegensatz zu dir, der die Mullahs relativiert mit diesen ganzen Vergleichen...das Kleidchen aus Sachlichkeit und Objektivität,.was du dir hier so gerne überstreifst, ist halt nur Blendwerk.
Abstruse Vorwürfe, Strohmänner noch und nöcher und ein Haufen Relativieren sprechen eine amdere Sprache.
Ahmose schrieb:Ganz sicher. Und weil irgendein Shah mal ein handsigniertes Bild von Hitler hatte, ist der Iran mitschuld am Holocaust und sie sind alle Faschisten und Nazis
Haha, hihihi....jetzt hast du aber alles restlos ad absurdum geführt.
After the occupation of Iran by Soviet and British troops in August 1941, Radio Zeesen became all the more important. “They [Persian listeners] turn to the German wireless now as the only means of getting Axis news”, states a BBC report of June 1942. “Although action is being taken to make effective the ban on public listening to Axis broadcasts, it seems that listening in private houses is still widely practised. As a result it appears that many people are still convinced that the Axis powers will win the war; Hitler, moreover, is said to enjoy great personal popularity.”[10] Some Sheikhs even deemed Adolf Hitler to be the Shi’ite Messiah, the “Twelfth Imam”.
During World War I, many Shi’ite clerics had already demonstrated reverence for the German Emperor as a protector and a secret convert to Islam. Hitler, for as long as the Germans were winning, was an even better figure upon which to project such a myth. A report on this matter by the German Ambassador in Tehran, Erwin Ettel, of February 1941 is illuminating: “For months, reports have been reaching the Embassy from the most varied sources that throughout the country clerics are speaking out, telling the faithful about old, enigmatic prophesies and dreams which they interpret to mean that God has sent the Twelfth Imam into the world in the shape of Hitler. Wholly without Embassy involvement, an increasingly influential propaganda theme has come into being, in which the Führer and therefore Germany are seen as the deliverers from all evil.”[11]
The German short-wave radio station was happy to exploit these fantasies in its Farsi broadcasts. However, Erwin Ettel was not satisfied. The Imam-belief strengthened the love of Germany, but it contributed little to hatred of the Jews. Here was still work for him to do.
It was understood that German-style antisemitism would have little resonance in Iran. “The broad masses lack a feeling for the race idea,” explained the propaganda expert of the German embassy in Tehran. He therefore laid “all the emphasis on the religious motif in our propaganda in the Islamic world. This is the only way to win over the Orientals.”[12] But how exactly could Nazi Germany, of all countries, conduct a religious propaganda campaign? Ettel had an idea.
“The way to directly connect up with Shi’ite ideas is through the treatment of the Jewish question, which the Muhammedan perceives in religious terms and which, precisely for this reason, makes him susceptible to National Socialism on religious grounds.” Just as hatred of Jews would provide the point of entry into the Shi’ite faith, so religion would serve as the natural medium for the propagation of Jew-hatred. “A way to foster this (anti-Jewish) development would be to highlight Muhammad’s struggle against the Jews in ancient times and that of the Führer in modern times,” Ettel recommended to the Foreign Office. “Additionally, by identifying the British with the Jews, an exceptionally effective anti-English propaganda campaign can be conducted among the Shi’ite people.”
Ettel even picked out the appropriate Koranic passages: firstly, sura 5, verse 82: “Truly you will find that the most implacable of men in their enmity to the faithful are the Jews and the pagans”; and, secondly, the final sentence of chapter 2 of Mein Kampf: “In resisting the Jew, I do the work of the Lord.” “By successfully bringing the country’s clergy under the sway of German propaganda, we can win over broad layers of the popular masses,” Ettel wrote in February 1941.[13]
Ettel’s proposal demonstrates that the Nazis sought to use religion to create an implacable hostility to the Jews. The first step was to awaken religious anti-Judaism, using references to Muhammad and the Koran. Thus, they built on the foundations of a centuries-old Muslim anti-Judaism while at the same time radicalizing it. One way of doing that was to depict Britain as being under Jewish control. Britain was in any case detested by the majority of the Iranian people. They were well-disposed, however, towards the US, as Ettel bitterly complained.
Thus, from late summer 1942 onwards, Radio Zeesen’s antisemitism was mixed with a special type of anti-Americanism as well. For example, Radio Zeesen emphasised “that the Jewish power policy in the Middle East is being implemented by the Americans.” This linkage is “regularly employed to reinforce our anti-American propaganda in Iran.”[14] The former Ambassador to Iraq, Fritz Grobba, advocated the same approach on July 2, 1942. “It must be stressed even more strongly than before that the Americans are acting as the pacemakers for the Jews in the Oriental sphere. Every American who comes to the Orient does so on the instructions of the Jews. The Jews have sent him there, even if he is not aware of this. The Jews are pulling the Americans’ strings.”[15] The closer came the defeat of the Nazis, the more frenzied became this anti-Western antisemitism – according to Josef Goebbels some 70-80 percent of the spoken material on Radio Zeesen in 1943 consisted of attacks on the Jews.[16]
Among the regular listeners to this material was a man of whom the world was later to hear much more: Ruhollah Khomeini. “Germany’s Persian service was, during the war, to enjoy the widest possible audience in Iran and Iraq”, writes Amir Taheri in his biography of Khomeini. When, in winter 1938 Khomeini, then aged thirty-six, returned from Iraq to Qum in Iran, he “had brought with him a radio set made by the British company Pye which he had bought from an Indian Muslim pilgrim. The radio proved a good buy. … It also gave him a certain prestige. Many mullahs and talabehs would gather at his home, often on the terrace, in the evenings to listen to Radio Berlin [= Radio Zeesen] and the BBC.”[17] The long-term consequences of this listening experience are well known.
Research on the impact of the Nazi’s radio propaganda in Iran has just begun and many additional discoveries can be expected. What we can conclude today is that this radio propaganda changed the perception of the so-called Jewish danger in two respects. Firstly, Radio Zeesen radicalized the hatred of Jews by fusing early Islamic Jew-hatred with the myth of the Jewish world conspiracy.
In 1963, twenty years later, these Nazi seeds bore fruits when Khomeini enriched his anti-Shah campaign with anti-Jewish slogans. Now his religious warning cry “Attack on Islam” was replaced by the antisemitic battle cry “Jews and foreigners wish to destroy Islam!” “Remind the people of the danger posed by Israel and its agents”, he ordered his supporters in Tehran and elsewhere. “Recall and explain all the catastrophes inflicted upon Islam by the Jews and the Baha’is.” Khomeini’s most important book, The Islamic State, published in 1971, is full of antisemitic invective. “It is the Jews who were the first to begin with anti-Islamic propaganda and ideological conspiracies,” he says in his foreword. “And that continues, as you see, until the present day.” Thus, by connecting Mohammad’s story of the seventh century with the present time, he unwittingly follows Ettel’s concept.
The second way in which radio propaganda changed the perception of the “Jewish danger” was that Radio Zeesen propagated the kind of genocidal anti-Zionism which is prevalent today. We have to analyse the revival of this ideology, keeping in mind that no other Muslim country between 1906 and 1979 had a more enlightened religious leadership, a leadership that also accepted Iran’s excellent relationship with Israel. As early as 1967, however, Khomeini started to preach a genocidal hatred against the Jewish state. It is the “duty” of all Muslims, he told his followers during that year, “to annihilate unbelieving and inhuman Zionism … The duty of the Palestinian people is the duty of every Muslim even in the most distant lands.” He also insisted on a comprehensive boycott of Israel: “The whole Islamic nation must know that whoever deviates … will be considered an enemy of Islam and the Muslims.[18]
Today, the heirs of Khomeini are praising the “strategic alliance” between Nazi Germany and Iran as a model for future times. In their view, Iran was occupied in 1941 by exactly the same forces that occupied Germany in 1945. After the “liberation” of Iran in 1979 and the “liberation” of Germany in 1989, they can now revive their alliance which was interrupted in 1941.
[...]
Today, Khomeini’s heirs also repeat the rhetoric of Radio Zeesen verbatim. A Nazi party directive in May 1943 prophesied: “This war will end with antisemitic world revolution and with the extermination of Jewry throughout the world, both of which are the precondition for an enduring peace.”[21] Ahmadinejad, in his speeches, has revived this kind of genocidal utopia: “The Zionist regime will be wiped out, and humanity will be liberated”, he promised to the audience at the Holocaust deniers’ conference in 2006 in Teheran. “If peace prevails in the world, the people of the world will eradicate Zionism.”[22]
http://www.matthiaskuentzel.de/contents/iranian-antisemitism-stepchild-of-german-national-socialism
paranomal schrieb:Jetzt ist Israel auch noch Schuld am Antisemitismus? Das wird ja immer grotesker.
Ist doch klassisch.
Der Antisemitismus wird rationalisiert und dann sind es natürlich "die Juden", die eig dran schuld sind und das eigentliche Problem.
Man hat keinen einzigen Beleg dafür, dass die Mullahs bereit wären, die Haltung gegenüber Israel zu überdenken...ja, nichtmal einen einzigen Hinweis - außer vllt so einen Michael Lüders, der das nat auch einfach nur behauptet und in dessen fanatisch israelkritischem, antisemitismus-apologetischem und anti-westlichem Weltbild, die Rollen von gut und böse auch wider aller Fakten klipp und klar verteilt sind.
Dennoch wird diese Verhandlungsbereitschaft immer wieder mantraartig und sektiererisch postuliert, da können die Mullahs sagen, was sie wollen.
Jeder gegenteilige Beleg wird dann einfach mit "Ja, klar, in der Situation ist man doch nicht verhandlungsbereit...da würde ich auch nicht von der Vernichtung Israels abrücken....man, bist du doof, du hast wirklich keine Ahnung von Diplomatie" weggewischt...egal, wie eindeutig er ist.
Es ist eine vollkommene Farce, hier überhaupt noch Dinge zu belegen, sie werden zur Not einfach weggeglaubt....als würde man mit irgendwelchen Sektenmitgliedern im Religionsbereich reden.
Tiho schrieb:Wobei ich tatsächlich eine ähnlich getönte besitze.
Jedimindtricks schrieb:Erklärt einiges...
Fedaykin schrieb:Der Iran hat sich eher die Rest der Moderne erhalten aus der prä Mullah Zeit. Die konnten die Uhr nie vollständig zurückdrehen.
Fierna schrieb:So lange ich hier mitlese, hat hier noch kein Mensch, der das Regime im Iran kritisiert, "die Iraner" derart hingestellt.
