WgahnaglFhtagn schrieb:Das Dumme ist nämlich: in beiden Fällen implizieren ihre Aussagen, dass Oswald gelogen hat. Keine Stangen dort - Oswald hat gelogen. Stangen nachher noch da - Oswald hat gelogen. Der einzige interessante Fall wäre, wenn die Stangen vorher da gewesen wären und nachher nicht.
Du übersiehst eine dritte Möglichkeit: Oswald nahm nur einen Teil der Stangen mit, vielleicht nur zwei. Der Rest blieb in der Garage. Die Frage ist ob Ruth über die Zahl Gardinenstangen vor dem Attentat Bescheid wusste.
Mr. JENNER - Let us return to the curtain rods first. Do you still have those curtain rods?
Mrs. PAINE - I believe so.
Mr. JENNER - You believe so, or you know; which?
Mrs. PAINE - I think Michael went to look after the assassination, whether these were still in the garage.
Mr. JENNER - Did you have a conversation with Michael as to whether he did or didn't look?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - Why was he looking to see if the curtain rod package was there?
Mrs. PAINE - He was particularly interested in the wrapping, was the wrapping still there, the brown paper.
Mr. JENNER - When did this take place?
Mrs. PAINE - After the assassination, perhaps a week or so later, perhaps when one of the FBI people were out; I don't really recall.
Mr. JENNER - And was the package with the curtain rods found on that occasion?
Mrs. PAINE - It is my recollection it was.
Senator COOPER - Let me ask a question there. After the assassination, at anytime did you go into the garage and look to see if both of these packages were there?https://www.patspeer.com/chapter-4g-thoughts-on-shots-and-the-curtain-rod-story
Mrs. PAINE - A week and a half, or a week later.
Senator COOPER - At any time?
Mrs. PAINE - Did I, personally?
Senator COOPER - Have you seen these packages since the assassination?
Mrs. PAINE - It seems to me I recall seeing a package.
Senator COOPER - What?
Mrs. PAINE - I don't recall opening it up and looking in carefully. I seem to recall seeing the package.
Senator COOPER - Both of them?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Senator COOPER - Or just one?
Mrs. PAINE - Both.
Senator COOPER - Did you feel them to see if the rods were in there?
Mrs. PAINE - No. I think Michael did, but I am not certain.
Senator COOPER - But you never did, yourself?
Mrs. PAINE - It was not my most pressing--
Senator COOPER - What?
Mrs. PAINE - It was not the most pressing thing I had to do at that time.
Senator COOPER - I know that. But you must have read after the assassination the story about Lee Oswald saying, he told Mr. Frazier, I think, that he was carrying some curtain rods in the car?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Senator COOPER - Do you remember reading that?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes; I remember reading that.
Senator COOPER - Didn't that lead you-Did it lead you then to go in and see if the curtain rods were there?
Mrs. PAINE - It was all I could do at that point to answer my door, answer my telephone, and take care of my children.
Senator COOPER - I understand you had many things to do.
Mrs. PAINE - So I did not.
Senator COOPER - You never did do it?
Mrs. PAINE - I am not certain whether I specifically went in and checked on that. I recall a conversation with Michael about it and, to the best of my recollection, things looked as I expected to find them looking out there. This package with brown paper was still there.
WgahnaglFhtagn schrieb:Keineswegs ist das der Punkt ob Ruth Paine sich korrekt erinnert.
Das bestimmst du? So wusste es von Anfang nicht genau. Die Gardinenstangengeschichte ist mir ihrer eigenen untrennbar verwoben, wie soll sie da "vergessen" haben , dass sie überhaupt Gardinenstangen in der Garage hatte? Sie stand fast 60 Jahre lang zu Jahrestagen und neuen Veröffentlichungen zum Attentat freiwillig Rede und Antwort, natürlich kam da immer die Gardinenstangengeschichte hoch. Im Moment ist sogar ein Film über sie und ihre Rolle in den Verschwörungstheorien in Arbeit:https://www.jfkpaine.com/
Woran sie sich nicht richtig erinnern kann ist die genaue Anzahl der Gardinenstangen vor und nach dem Attentat, was seit Anfang an klar war. Die an Ruth Paine gerichtete Fragen zielten auch darauf ab:Can you elaborate on the curtain rods that were stored in your garage? How many sets did you keep there? Were there any missing in March, when the members asked you about them?
Eine ehrliche Antwort hätte da nur Verwirrung und Unsicherheit gestiftet- und die direkt daneben sitzenden Mitarbeiter der Warren-Kommission in Verlegenheit gebracht.
WgahnaglFhtagn schrieb:Und nein, dass die Polizei deswegen nicht auf Gardinenstangen schaut, weil sie von Anfang an Oswald als Täter festlegen wollten (immerhin gibt es eine Zeugenaussage die eine Verbindung zwischen "Gardinenstangen" und der Tatwaffe herstellt), ist eine unbewiesene Mutmaßung.
Dass die Polizei sich auf Oswald als täter von Anfang versteifte ist ausreichend erwiesen. Das sieht man bei den Zeugengegenüberstellungen zum Tippit-Mord und den Umständen seiner Verhaftung.
his was the first time that she [Postal] had heard of Tippit's death, and one of the officers identified the man they arrested by calling out his name, "Oswald".… (Emphasis added. FBI report 2/29/64 by Arthur E. Carter.)
Johnny Brewer, Zeuge der Verhaftung Oswalds im TExas Theatre:
MR. BREWER -- "And somebody hollered "He's got a gun". And there were a couple of officers fighting him and taking the gun away from him, and they took the gun from him, and he was fighting, still fighting, and I heard some of the police holler, I don't know who it was, "Kill the President, will you." And I saw fists flying and they were hitting him."
WC testimony of Johnny C. Brewer, at 7 H 6.
Sieh dir mal auch das hier an:
"This man shot and killed President John F. Kennedy..."Beitrag von bredulino (Seite 1.545)
WgahnaglFhtagn schrieb:Aber dann hätte man sie finden müssen
Was wäre denn gewesen, wenn man welche gefunden hätte? Oswald wurde von Anfang als Täter festgelegt. https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/FalseMystery/COPA1998VJS.html#s29
Der einzige Unterschied zwischen Washington, DC und des Dallas Police Department war, dass bei letztgenannter Behörde manche Mitarbeiter scharf drauf waren, Oswald zum Teil einer kommunistischen Verschwörung zu machen.
WgahnaglFhtagn schrieb:Ebenso wie die dass Ruth Paine lügt oder unter Druck gesetzt wurde etc.
Leider sagt die Unwahrheit, wenn sie behauptet, dass keine Gardinenstangen in ihrer Garage waren.
Ruth Paine testified that when the cops came to her home that afternoon, "I said nothing. I think I just dropped my jaw."
That wasn't quite how the police remembered it. Guy F. Rose, a homicide detective with the Dallas Police Department, told Warren Commission attorney Joseph Ball about his arrival at the Paine home that day.
Mr. Rose.... just as soon as we walked up on the porch, Ruth Paine came to the door. She apparently recognized us - she said, "I've been expecting you all," and we identified ourselves, and she said, "Well, I've been expecting you to come out. Come right on in."
Mr. Ball. Did she say why she had been expecting you?
Mr. Rose. She said, "Just as soon as I heard where the shooting happened, I knew there would be someone out."
If Ruth Paine "knew," as soon as she heard where the assassination occurred, that the police would be visiting her home, then something doesn't add up. At that point, according to her own testimony, she thought Oswald was working at a second TSBD building - not the one at 411 Elm Street, where the Warren Commission ultimately placed Oswald and his rifle, but one that was located several blocks from Dealey Plaza.
Robert Adams of the Texas Employment Commission testified to having called the Paine household at about the time Oswald was referred by Ruth -- via a neighbor-- to the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) for a position. He called and was told Oswald was not there. He left a message for Oswald to come down and see him since he had a position available as a cargo handler at a regional cargo airline. Interestingly, this job paid about 1/3 more than the job Oswald ended up with at the TSBD. He called again the next day to inquire about Oswald and the position again. He was now told that Lee had already taken a job. Ruth was questioned about the Adams call by the Warren Commission's Albert Jenner. At first she denied ever hearing of such a job offer. She said, "I do not recall that." (p. 172) She then backtracked, in a tactical way. She now said that she may have heard of the offer from Lee. This, of course, would seem to contradict both the Adams testimony and common sense. If Oswald was cognizant of the better offer, why would he take the lower paying job?https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKpaine.htm