Oscar Pistorius, das Model, der Valentinstag und das war dann Notwehr

zwicker schrieb:Wenn System 1 die eingehenden Informationen als ausreichend ansieht, um eine Standardentscheidung abzurufen, führt das zu dem Problem, dass das Unsichtbare keine Berücksichtigung bei der Entscheidung mehr findet. Mit anderen Worten: Wir ignorieren das Unsichtbare, auch wenn es denkbar ist.
Wir tun das vor allem dann, wenn uns plausibel klingende Geschichten präsentiert werden. Sie passen gut in die von System 1 gespeicherten Muster. Sie haben deshalb besonders große Chancen, auch bei dünner Datenlage geglaubt zu werden. Das gilt für kohärente, also zusammenhängende und auf den ersten Blick widerspruchsfreie Geschichten. Besonders leicht werden diese Geschichten geglaubt, wenn sie aus einer als vertrauenswürdig eingeschätzten Quelle stammen und ein paar weitere Voraussetzungen vorliegen.

CosmicQueen schrieb:Putativnotwehr ist insbesondere gegeben, wenn der Täter von einem vermeintlichen gegenwärtigen Angriff auf sich ausgeht.

aseria23 schrieb:Ich fürchte OP wird entweder frei gesprochen (wenn auch recht unwahrscheinlich) oder zumindest milde beurteilt (schon wahrscheinlicher). Der Promistatus und das Geld scheint halt überall auf der welt einfluss zu nehmen, das kann man nicht wegdiskutieren.

Tussinelda schrieb:also muss man nicht damit diskutieren, dass es faktisch keinen Angriff gab, denn darum geht es ja bei Putativnotwehr, es gab eben keinen, man dachte nur, man würde angegriffen, man befände sich in Lebensgefahr

KlaraFall schrieb:
Oscar hat gezielt Reeva erschossen.


Das ist nicht bewiesen und eine reine Behauptung von dir. ;)

Vor 40 Jahren war es strafbar, wenn homosexuelle Männer miteinander geschlechtlich
verkehrten (§ 175 StGB a.F.). Das entsprach ebenfalls uralten Traditionen und war so
selbstverständlich wie es normal war, „uneheliche“ Kinder und alleinerziehende Mütter
gesellschaftlich auszugrenzen. Zwischen 1945 und 1966 wurden wegen homosexueller
Handlungen 65.000 Männer bestraft
. Vor gerade einmal 25 Jahren war homosexueller
Geschlechtsverkehr zwar nur noch in bestimmten Fällen strafbar
. Gleichwohl bedeutete es immer noch den gesellschaftlichen Ruin, sich als Homosexueller zu outen. Inzwischen wird Homophobie staatlicherseits massiv bekämpft. Unser Bundespräsident hat
unter anderem wegen der homophoben Gesetzeslage in Russland seinen Besuch der
dortigen olympischen Winterspiele abgesagt
. Die uralte gesellschaftliche Ächtung der
Homosexualität wurde damit innerhalb nur einer Generation vom staatlichen Kampf gegen Homophobie abgelöst. Selbst die BILD-Zeitung feierte das Coming-Out des früheren
Fußball-Profis Thomas Hitzlsbergerals Heldentat

. Dabei ist es nicht nur so, dass wir
Homosexualität zu tolerieren gelernt haben. Es gibt auch kein Verständnis mehr für die,
die das bestrafen, was auch bei uns vor 40 Jahren noch geradewegs ins Gefängnis führen konnte. Und ausgerechnet im zutiefst katholischen Spanien ist Homophobie heute
sogar ein Straftatbestand

Die Belege für Homosexualität im antiken Griechenland sind zahlreich. Die gleichgeschlechtliche Liebe im antiken Griechenland wird oftmals als Musterbeispiel für Toleranz gegenüber Homosexualität im Allgemeinen zitiert. Eine detaillierte Betrachtung der Quellen bietet jedoch ein differenzierteres Bild.
Die Knabenliebe wurde eindeutig gesellschaftlich akzeptiert und teilweise sogar gefördert.

sterntaucher schrieb:Vielleicht gibt es ja in nicht allzu ferner Zukunft auch noch ein Verdienstkreuz dazu!

Der Polizist Travis Welsh soll gegenüber der Lokalzeitung «The Missoulian» gesagt haben: «Wir würden niemanden festnehmen, wenn wir nicht der Überzeugung wären, dass ein Verbrechen begangen worden ist.»

Im US-Bundesstaat Montana gilt die Castle-Doktrin. Diese räumt Hausbesitzern das Recht ein, sich mit tödlicher Gewalt gegen Eindringlinge zu wehren.

"My mind wasn't thinking about this gun in my hand," Pistorius said.

___

KlaraFall schrieb:Die Liebe zu töten und .........Reeva was just another target.

https://www.facebook.com/Justice4ReevaSteenkamp/posts/613027012109205?stream_ref=10

http://www.witness.co.za/index.php?showcontent&global[_id]=96515


Persönlich bin ich überzeugt davon, dass nicht einmal die Pistorius Familie von einem Unfall ausgeht, sondern wie Onkel Arnold schon geschmacklos zu Reevas Mutter sagte: "we are trying to save a life"

" Now you can see what this Pistorius lot really are! No love, No respect, No decency, No lawfulness, No compassion, No humaneness, No moral compass, No values, NOTHING! Put the whole lot in the toilet cubicle and use the black talon bullets!"

zwicker schrieb:Verfestigte Vorurteile sind nicht das einzige Hindernis auf dem Weg zur fehlerfreien Abwägung und Entscheidung. Es kommt hinzu, dass ein Entscheidungsapparat wie unser Gehirn, das die Außenwelt vorrangig auf gespeicherte Modelle für eine Standardentscheidung durchsucht, nur die Informationen verarbeiten kann, die es sieht. Wenn System 1 die eingehenden Informationen als ausreichend ansieht, um eine Standardentscheidung abzurufen, führt das zu dem Problem, dass das Unsichtbare keine Berücksichtigung bei der Entscheidung mehr findet. Mit anderen Worten: Wir ignorieren das Unsichtbare, auch wenn es denkbar ist.

I dont know who the author (other than donmack) of this article is, so cannot give credit. However, this is the BEST account I have ever read:

Offered by donmack:

"Anyone who still believes OP is innocent has to believe that the following scenario is credible:

Reeva happily goes to bed having packed all her clothes neatly away in her bag, including her underwear and the top she was wearing, while leaving her jeans inside out at the bottom of the bed

OP wakes in the night and immediately puts his hands over his face. He takes them off long enough to glance over and notice Reeva’s legs under the duvet. He then puts his hands back over his face to get out of bed – pushing aside a duvet that is not actually on him

He walks around to Reeva’s side of the bed without either looking at her or telling her what he’s doing. She doesn’t ask, either

Once his back is completely turned, Reeva silently scrambles across to his side of the bed and walks totally noiselessly and in the pitch black to the toilet

Never once facing the bed, OP brings both fans in and positions them at the end of the bed. How he did that with his back to the bed the entire time, I am unable to fathom. He either stood with his back to the bed, and put the fans in front of him and then walked around them, or positioned them with his arms behind him

In spite of the pitch black room he notices jeans on the floor. He is bothered by a small LED light enough to want to cover them with said jeans – but not bothered by the lit up LED display, the light on the TV or the lights on the light switches

He hears a terrifying sound from the bathroom and is frozen with fear. At no point does it cross his mind that it may have been the person sharing the bedroom and bathroom with him making the noise – nope, he’s so convinced it can’t be her, he doesn’t even bother to turn his head and glance in her direction

He doesn’t seek to clarify what he’s heard with his awake girlfriend who is feet away from him. He doesn’t wonder if she heard it too and is scared

He feels particularly vulnerable because he’s on his stumps, but doesn’t take a few seconds to put on the legs that are, actually, right next to him

He stops being frozen with fear and heads for his gun, making his way around the fans that he has just positioned in front of the bed. He holds into the bed for balance, and says not a word to the person who is in it regarding the fact that he believes that there are intruders in the next room and he needs to arm himself

He reaches under the bed for the gun careful not to glance across at the person he believes is in it

He stands up, faces the passage and whispers/ speaks quietly to Reeva telling her to get down and call the police without actually telling her why. He is not surprised that she doesn’t ask or that she doesn’t bother to get out of bed and get down as instructed

He makes his way in terror to the bathroom – ignoring the door that he and Reeva could have escaped through and the panic alarm that would have brought immediate help

He’s so desperate to put himself between the intruders and Reeva that he doesn’t actually check where Reeva is

He is too scared to put the light on but not too scared to start screaming as soon as he starts walking down the passage

He is walking slowly and quietly down the passage, screaming

Reeva hears the screaming but is too scared of the intruder to respond and give away her position, so she slams the door

OP screams at Reeva to call the police. She fails to do this even though she has her phone with her

OP gets to the bathroom doorway, and stops screaming so that the intruders won’t know where he is

When he sees that there’s no one in the bathroom, he starts screaming again

Reeva stands facing the door making no effort to speak to her screaming boyfriend who is now standing right outside the toilet door. She doesn’t wonder if he wants to come into the toilet and hide with her, she selfishly hides behind the silently locking door and says nothing

Somehow she steps backwards to knock the magazine rack on the other side of the toilet before immediately stepping forward again to the position she was in when she was shot

OP has many thoughts running though his head – a story about a neighbour being tied up in his house, the crime rate in SA, the builder leaving a ladder outside his house, the folly of shooting a warning shot into the shower in case it ricochets and hits him, but a noise from the toilet has all thoughts disappearing from his mind like a fart in the wind and he shoots once, moves position and shoots three more times without actually meaning to….all the while screaming

He stands screaming for a bit, then walks backwards out of the bathroom screaming

He gets to the bedroom, screaming, and is a trifle surprised to see that Reeva is not sitting in bed after hearing four gunshots from the en suite bathroom

He heads across the bed backwards,keeping his eyes on the passage….she’s not there. He walks along the gap between the bed and the curtains, she’s not there. She’s not behind the curtains either.

Gasp. Was that Reeva in the toilet? He doesn’t even bother checking to see whether she’s run out of the bedroom – that would be a ridiculous thing to do given that the shooting was in the bathroom, so he sees no sense in even checking (yes, he actually said that)

He runs with his gun back to the bathroom and tries to pull open the door – he’s still scared it may be an intruder, and hopeful it’s not Reeva, but he doesn’t bother checking to see if there’s a ladder outside the window

He runs back to the bedroom, parts the curtains and shouts for help from the balcony….holding a cocked gun in his hand because he’s still scared

He puts down his gun, sits on the bed, looks for his socks, puts on his legs then picks up his gun again to run to the bathroom – all in the pitch black because he tells us he never opened the curtains or put on the light

Kicking the door doesn’t work, so he runs back for his bat. He then runs back to the bathroom with a cocked gun in one hand and a cricket bat in the other

Oh, I almost forgot – throughout all of this he is screaming like a woman, except when he goes onto the balcony to shout for help in a man’s voice

All of the above takes him 15 minutes

Back in the bathroom, he puts down the gun and hits the door three times with enough ferocity that six people think they are gunshots. Four of those people had slept through the real gunshots 15 minutes earlier – seemingly not bothered by a sound 1000 times louder than the sound that they are hearing now

Once he breaks down the door and sees Reeva bloody and not breathing, he is as silent as a monk. No more screaming – he is too “sad” to scream anymore

In spite of screaming at Reeva to call the police three times, it doesn’t occur to him to do the same himself now

He sits sobbing over her, then pulls her against him, feeling her blood run on to him – although it only manages to stain his shorts and forearms

He is so distraught by Reeva’s condition, that getting medical help for her is not his first thought….calling a friend is

He psychically knows that Netcare will tell him to get Reeva to hospital himself so he calls Stander to help him lift her so he can do this

He then calls Netcare to be given the worst medical advice of all time – to take a woman who has been shot three times, once in the head, to hospital himself

He calls Security for help, then sobs down the phone to them. When they call him back, he forgets to ask for help and tells them he is fine

He runs downstairs, careful to switch off the alarm first and opens the door, crying

Coming back upstairs he smashes his way through the bedroom double doors before simply unlatching them

He carries Reeva through the bedroom, leaving a dissected line of blood that is half on carpet and half on the duvet on the bed – which the police can handily line up later making it look like the duvet was on the floor all along and that OP is one enormous great big fat liar

I could go on, but my dinner is ready.

I am starting to think that anyone who truly believes this man is innocent is slightly divorced from reality. It’s the biggest load of bullcrap I have ever, ever heard. Seriously..."
I just HAD to post this, but pasted it here for those of you who cannot open a link..."Interesting Pistorius timeline as offered by donmack"

Offered by donmack:
"Anyone who still believes OP is innocent has to believe that the following scenario is credible:

Reeva happily goes to bed having packed all her clothes neatly away in her bag, including her underwear and the top she was wearing, while leaving her jeans inside out at the bottom of the bed

OP wakes in the night and immediately puts his hands over his face. He takes them off long enough to glance over and notice Reeva’s legs under the duvet. He then puts his hands back over his face to get out of bed – pushing aside a duvet that is not actually on him

He walks around to Reeva’s side of the bed without either looking at her or telling her what he’s doing. She doesn’t ask, either

Once his back is completely turned, Reeva silently scrambles across to his side of the bed and walks totally noiselessly and in the pitch black to the toilet

Never once facing the bed, OP brings both fans in and positions them at the end of the bed. How he did that with his back to the bed the entire time, I am unable to fathom. He either stood with his back to the bed, and put the fans in front of him and then walked around them, or positioned them with his arms behind him

In spite of the pitch black room he notices jeans on the floor. He is bothered by a small LED light enough to want to cover them with said jeans – but not bothered by the lit up LED display, the light on the TV or the lights on the light switches

He hears a terrifying sound from the bathroom and is frozen with fear. At no point does it cross his mind that it may have been the person sharing the bedroom and bathroom with him making the noise – nope, he’s so convinced it can’t be her, he doesn’t even bother to turn his head and glance in her direction

He doesn’t seek to clarify what he’s heard with his awake girlfriend who is feet away from him. He doesn’t wonder if she heard it too and is scared

He feels particularly vulnerable because he’s on his stumps, but doesn’t take a few seconds to put on the legs that are, actually, right next to him

He stops being frozen with fear and heads for his gun, making his way around the fans that he has just positioned in front of the bed. He holds into the bed for balance, and says not a word to the person who is in it regarding the fact that he believes that there are intruders in the next room and he needs to arm himself

He reaches under the bed for the gun careful not to glance across at the person he believes is in it

He stands up, faces the passage and whispers/ speaks quietly to Reeva telling her to get down and call the police without actually telling her why. He is not surprised that she doesn’t ask or that she doesn’t bother to get out of bed and get down as instructed

He makes his way in terror to the bathroom – ignoring the door that he and Reeva could have escaped through and the panic alarm that would have brought immediate help

He’s so desperate to put himself between the intruders and Reeva that he doesn’t actually check where Reeva is

He is too scared to put the light on but not too scared to start screaming as soon as he starts walking down the passage

He is walking slowly and quietly down the passage, screaming

Reeva hears the screaming but is too scared of the intruder to respond and give away her position, so she slams the door

OP screams at Reeva to call the police. She fails to do this even though she has her phone with her

OP gets to the bathroom doorway, and stops screaming so that the intruders won’t know where he is

When he sees that there’s no one in the bathroom, he starts screaming again

Reeva stands facing the door making no effort to speak to her screaming boyfriend who is now standing right outside the toilet door. She doesn’t wonder if he wants to come into the toilet and hide with her, she selfishly hides behind the silently locking door and says nothing

Somehow she steps backwards to knock the magazine rack on the other side of the toilet before immediately stepping forward again to the position she was in when she was shot

OP has many thoughts running though his head – a story about a neighbour being tied up in his house, the crime rate in SA, the builder leaving a ladder outside his house, the folly of shooting a warning shot into the shower in case it ricochets and hits him, but a noise from the toilet has all thoughts disappearing from his mind like a fart in the wind and he shoots once, moves position and shoots three more times without actually meaning to….all the while screaming

He stands screaming for a bit, then walks backwards out of the bathroom screaming

He gets to the bedroom, screaming, and is a trifle surprised to see that Reeva is not sitting in bed after hearing four gunshots from the en suite bathroom

He heads across the bed backwards,keeping his eyes on the passage….she’s not there. He walks along the gap between the bed and the curtains, she’s not there. She’s not behind the curtains either.

Gasp. Was that Reeva in the toilet? He doesn’t even bother checking to see whether she’s run out of the bedroom – that would be a ridiculous thing to do given that the shooting was in the bathroom, so he sees no sense in even checking (yes, he actually said that)

He runs with his gun back to the bathroom and tries to pull open the door – he’s still scared it may be an intruder, and hopeful it’s not Reeva, but he doesn’t bother checking to see if there’s a ladder outside the window

He runs back to the bedroom, parts the curtains and shouts for help from the balcony….holding a cocked gun in his hand because he’s still scared

He puts down his gun, sits on the bed, looks for his socks, puts on his legs then picks up his gun again to run to the bathroom – all in the pitch black because he tells us he never opened the curtains or put on the light

Kicking the door doesn’t work, so he runs back for his bat. He then runs back to the bathroom with a cocked gun in one hand and a cricket bat in the other

Oh, I almost forgot – throughout all of this he is screaming like a woman, except when he goes onto the balcony to shout for help in a man’s voice

All of the above takes him 15 minutes

Back in the bathroom, he puts down the gun and hits the door three times with enough ferocity that six people think they are gunshots. Four of those people had slept through the real gunshots 15 minutes earlier – seemingly not bothered by a sound 1000 times louder than the sound that they are hearing now

Once he breaks down the door and sees Reeva bloody and not breathing, he is as silent as a monk. No more screaming – he is too “sad” to scream anymore

In spite of screaming at Reeva to call the police three times, it doesn’t occur to him to do the same himself now

He sits sobbing over her, then pulls her against him, feeling her blood run on to him – although it only manages to stain his shorts and forearms

He is so distraught by Reeva’s condition, that getting medical help for her is not his first thought….calling a friend is

He psychically knows that Netcare will tell him to get Reeva to hospital himself so he calls Stander to help him lift her so he can do this

He then calls Netcare to be given the worst medical advice of all time – to take a woman who has been shot three times, once in the head, to hospital himself

He calls Security for help, then sobs down the phone to them. When they call him back, he forgets to ask for help and tells them he is fine

He runs downstairs, careful to switch off the alarm first and opens the door, crying

Coming back upstairs he smashes his way through the bedroom double doors before simply unlatching them

He carries Reeva through the bedroom, leaving a dissected line of blood that is half on carpet and half on the duvet on the bed – which the police can handily line up later making it look like the duvet was on the floor all along and that OP is one enormous great big fat liar

I could go on, but my dinner is ready.

I am starting to think that anyone who truly believes this man is innocent is slightly divorced from reality. It’s the biggest load of bullcrap I have ever, ever heard. Seriously..."


https://www.facebook.com/Justice4ReevaSteenkamp/posts/613459435399296?stream_ref=5