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Unruhen in der Ukraine - reloaded

79.789 Beiträge, Schlüsselwörter: Krieg, EU, Merkel, Obama, Ukraine, Krise, Putin, Krim, Maidan, Bandera, Jazenjuk + 11 weitere
Ukrop
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15.05.2015 um 11:36
das Ende naht.

Hysterie erfasst Forbes:
Ukraine Still Doesn't Have A Deal With Its Creditors

Ukraine’s high-touted “$40 billion bailout” from the IMF was always a lot less than meets the eye. Much of the money had already been promised to Ukraine in an earlier lending operation, and the amount of genuinely new funding was rather modest. Even more importantly, roughly $15 billion of the $40 billion in “assistance” provided by the IMF was actually predicated on the successful outcome of negotiations with Ukraine’s creditors. That is to say that more than a third of the total bailout wasn’t money that the IMF gave Ukraine, it was money that the IMF assumed Ukraine would save by defaulting on its debts.

Now the IMF itself really own any of Ukraine’s sovereign debt nor does it have any authority over the people who do. The people who actually own Ukraine’s debt are (quite understandably!) not terribly enthusiastic about a process that seeks to massively reduce its value. In other words, there were never any guarantee that the IMF’s target of $15 billion in savings was going to be met and there was always the chance that negotiations between Ukraine and its creditors were going to turn ugly.

Well, according to stories from both Reuters and The Financial Times things are turning ugly. Quite spectacularly ugly, in fact.
fortsetzung: http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2015/05/13/ukraine-still-doesnt-have-a-deal-with-its-creditors/


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15.05.2015 um 12:16
@Ukrop an @unreal-live
Ukrop schrieb:danke für die videos. must see
Ja, danke!


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15.05.2015 um 12:46
Eine wie ich meine interessante Sicht auf "Das Denken" eines "durschnittlichen Ukrops". Wollte ich euch nicht entgehen lassen.
"Serbian snipers eliminated Dmitry Afanasiev, odious banderist and fighter of punishment battalion OUN".

This is one of the headlines about the war in the Donbass. The title is indicative. OUN — organization of Ukrainian nationalists — historically pure Galician political organization with Nazi ideology.

The ideologists and leaders of the OUN directly acknowledged and sought in every way to "cling" to popular in Europe at that time movements of Hitler and Mussolini.

The person involved in the title has emphasized great russian name. Like many Maidan activists, famous fanatical Russophobists: Rychkova, Butusov, Biryukov and others.

These people have their own interests. And I'm not going to tell stories about them. But about "average Ukrop". About a person, from birth, speaking in Russian, often having relatives in Russia, but, nevertheless, trying to prove his "Non-russianness" jumping on the Maidan, and today fighting against the Russian people.

...

To accuse avarage Ukrop, often Russian-speaking and in fact being Russian, "Bandera" and "fascism" is nonsense. The average Ukrop did not read Stsiborsky or Dontsov. So it was stupid trying to convince him of the benefit of the Eurasian Union and disadvantage of the European. People becase Ukrops not because of reading Nazi-ideologists.

But because one has accepted the idea that their homeland is not a huge space from the Carpathians to the Pacific ocean, and is only one of the Soviet republics. Clearly bounded by the line drawn in the 20-ies of the Communist leaders. And now these people are ready to kill and die for the immutability of this boundary.

...

Alexey Selivanov, from Kiev, Faithful chieftain of the Cossacks
http://rusvesna.su/news/1431681558

Der gesamte Text im Spoiler.
Spoiler
"Serbian snipers eliminated Dmitry Afanasiev, odious banderist and fighter of punishment battalion OUN".

This is one of the headlines about the war in the Donbass. The title is indicative. OUN — organization of Ukrainian nationalists — historically pure Galician political organization with Nazi ideology.

The ideologists and leaders of the OUN directly acknowledged and sought in every way to "cling" to popular in Europe at that time movements of Hitler and Mussolini.

The person involved in the title has emphasized great russian name. Like many Maidan activists, famous fanatical Russophobists: Rychkova, Butusov, Biryukov and others.

These people have their own interests. And I'm not going to tell stories about them. But about "average Ukrop". About a person, from birth, speaking in Russian, often having relatives in Russia, but, nevertheless, trying to prove his "Non-russianness" jumping on the Maidan, and today fighting against the Russian people.

The uprising in the Donbas is because it is a manifestation of Russianness. And no wonder new maidaners today hold political exercises in the Armed forces of Ukraine "about the dangers of the idea of the Russian world". Russian Spring took place because people have not lost Russian feelings, and because they saw danger in the victory of the Maidan in Kiev.

The danger of transformation of the state in which they live, in moderately stressed anti-Russian state. With all the "charms" of glorification of Bandera, banishment of sense about the Victory Day, the final perversion of the school programs and the like. And they rebelled.

And the majority of Ukraine's population didn't see that risk. Because for them Russianness has long meant nothing. They were not interested in what is in the books that their children study. In this sense, material about a grandfather, who was made "a symbol of reconciliation" between the Soviet veterans and members of the UPA" (except for him, none of the veteran came to "reconcile"). Grandsons grandfather was killed in the battle with the militia.

Grandfather with daughter, Russians — in the past, were quite surprised that the Russian-speaking grandson suddenly spoke Ukrainian, that they differently perceived the past with grandson, and they were "shocked from what he taught". For the Grandfather the Victory Day is a "holy day", and the great war — patriotic. However, one hundred percent relies on the TV propaganda. Grandsons brains were reformatted, and guilty for some reason is Putin. Consciousness is fragmented. The average "Ukrop".

In Russia, many interesting tv shows, in which distinguished people speak about the revival of fascism and bandera cult in the Ukraine. And the average Ukrop laughs — after all, for him there are no fascists around. He doesn't join the torchlight processions of the Nazis. Guys walking around with stuffed swastikas from "voluntary battalions" for him — are our brave boys from the TV, "cyborg", and not the Nazis.

As his children at school are getting purely Nazi (calling it ukraincentrical!) worldview injected — medium Ukrop doesn't know about it. Because for this, firstly, we must take the trouble to browse the books of your child, and secondly, to know something about history, but "wise" phrases like: "it's all politics" or "history of changes with each new government." is easy.

To accuse avarage Ukrop, often Russian-speaking and in fact being Russian, "Bandera" and "fascism" is nonsense. The average Ukrop did not read Stsiborsky or Dontsov. So it was stupid trying to convince him of the benefit of the Eurasian Union and disadvantage of the European. People becase Ukrops not because of reading Nazi-ideologists.

But because one has accepted the idea that their homeland is not a huge space from the Carpathians to the Pacific ocean, and is only one of the Soviet republics. Clearly bounded by the line drawn in the 20-ies of the Communist leaders. And now these people are ready to kill and die for the immutability of this boundary.

It's like if you owned a huge estate, but suddenly decided to abandon it and be content with a small outbuilding in the corner. And you're used to the idea that only the Annex is yours. And throughout the huge mansion of your fathers and grandfathers now live in evil people. And you have no right to the property of the relatives of his father and brothers, but they on yours.

And walking around with a gun around the Annex, protecting you from the fictional assault. A twin brother who wants to come back in a big family, at the expanse of his father's estate, called a traitor and being hit on the head.

The question is not of economic benefit — the EU or the Eurasian Union. The question is not even in the language and culture. The fact is that the population of Ukraine was robbed. Quietly, gradually made a substitution in the brain. Deprived them of their Great Motherland, pitting her Small. And the tragedy is that they did not notice the theft. Agreed with it.

To stop this madness there is only one way. Revealing the truth, to convince the prodigal son in the stupidity of his behavior. Or wait until he, as in the biblical parable, having undergone all possible suffering, experiencing the betrayal of new, overseas "friends" will abandon their delusions himself.

Alexey Selivanov, from Kiev, Faithful chieftain of the Cossacks


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15.05.2015 um 13:05
Wir lesen Ukrainische Zeitungen

Ukrainische Polizei nimmt Ukrainische Soldaten wegen Mordes fest.
The police of the Donetsk region arrested four members of the Armed forces of Ukraine on suspicion in Commission of murder and causing bodily harm, causing death.

On it informs the Ministry of internal Affairs of Ukraine in Donetsk region with reference to the head Vyacheslav Abroskin.
Die Ukrainische Polizei im von der von Ukrainischen Streitkräften kontrolliertem Territorium der Donezker Region ist hier gemeint.
Criminal proceedings according to the facts discovered and investigated by law enforcement officers of Mariupol, Konstantinovka. Currently, all the suspects were arrested and are in custody.

According to the police, employees of the Constantine city police Department revealed the murder of the inhabitant of Dzerzhinsk, born in 1963, whose body was found on 29 April this year, close to the shafts of the Holy Matrona with a through gunshot wound of the torso.

In a course quickly-search actions employees of police department established involvement in the murder of a soldier of the Ukrainian Army, the inhabitant of the Kirovograd area. On May 12, the suspect was captured in Konstantinovk. Measure of restraint - arrest.

On this fact openly criminal proceedings under part 1 of article 115 of the Premeditated murder of the Criminal code of Ukraine. The sanction of article provides imprisonment for the term from 7 till 15 years. An investigation is underway.

In addition, on may 8 this year in the village Talakovka near Mariupol was discovered the corpse of a man, born in 1977, with traces of violent death. The investigators found that this case involved three soldiers who are stationed in the nearby village.

Criminal proceedings opened under part 2 of article 121 of the grievous bodily harm of the Criminal code of Ukraine. Article sanction provides till 10 years of imprisonment. The defendants elected a measure of restraint in the form of detention.
http://nv.ua/ukraine/events/miliciya-zaderzhala-v-doneckoy-oblasti-chetveryh-voennosluzhashchih-za-dva-ubiystva-48796.ht...


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15.05.2015 um 14:17
Ukrop schrieb:As his children at school are getting purely Nazi (calling it ukraincentrical!) worldview injected — medium Ukrop doesn't know about it. Because for this, firstly, we must take the trouble to browse the books of your child, and secondly, to know something about history,
...

Hätte gern mal 'nen ausführlichen Bericht/Doku gesehen oder Statements, was für 'ne Geschichtsversion des 20. Jhd.'s die dem Nachwuchs da so unterjubeln in den diversen Erziehungslagern 'Ferienlagern'.


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15.05.2015 um 14:24
@Pfeifenphysik
Ich suche was raus wenn ich zeit hab.


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15.05.2015 um 15:17
Hätte gern mal 'nen ausführlichen Bericht/Doku gesehen oder Statements, was für 'ne Geschichtsversion des 20. Jhd.'s die dem Nachwuchs da so unterjubeln in den diversen Erziehungslagern 'Ferienlagern'.
Nicht ganz was du suchst aber auch interessant:

Diskussion: Russland das Buhland... aber warum? (Beitrag von unreal-live)

Diskussion: Russland das Buhland... aber warum? (Beitrag von unreal-live)



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15.05.2015 um 16:07
@unreal-live



Olé, olé ... und der Oberhonk vorne weg.


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15.05.2015 um 16:19
unreal-live schrieb:Hätte gern mal 'nen ausführlichen Bericht/Doku gesehen oder Statements, was für 'ne Geschichtsversion des 20. Jhd.'s die dem Nachwuchs da so unterjubeln in den diversen Erziehungslagern 'Ferienlagern'.








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15.05.2015 um 16:43
Nuja, laut den russischen Nationalisten ist der Hitlergruß ein alter slawischer Gruß "vom Herzen zur Sonne"...auch eine interessante Interpretation.
http://www.spiegel.de/video/neonazis-in-russland-mit-hakenkreuz-und-kalaschnikow-video-1057929.html


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15.05.2015 um 17:15
@canales
canales schrieb:Nuja, laut den russischen Nationalisten ist der Hitlergruß ein alter slawischer Gruß "vom Herzen zur Sonne"...auch eine interessante Interpretation.
Es ist unmöglich, das, das die Nazis als Symbole, Worte und Farben für sich beansprucht haben, vom Erdboden zu tilgen.

Rote Farbe - das (Nazikreuz) ein Glücks-Zeichen der Inder, die braunen Hosen ... etc.
Wie soll das gehen?! Auch die Wortwahl ... wie soll man Worte, die die Nazis für ihren Propagandalauf gebrauchten, aus dem Duden streichen?!


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15.05.2015 um 17:27
Phantomeloi schrieb:Auch die Wortwahl ... wie soll man Worte, die die Nazis für ihren Propagandalauf gebrauchten, aus dem Duden streichen?!
"Ukraine über Alles" läßt auch sehr viel Freiraum für Interpretationen. Je nachdem, wie man es betont und in welchem Kontext gebraucht.


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15.05.2015 um 17:35
@Pfeifenphysik
Ja, das meinte ich.
Was wird alles gebraucht und mißbraucht ...
Man kann sich von "oben" kein Urteil bilden - man muss mitten rein :D


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15.05.2015 um 17:38
Ein Großteil der slawischen Staaten haben ein nationalistisches Problem. Deswegen ist der Begriff "der Kampf gegen den Antifaschismus" absolut paradox auf Hinblick der eigenen politischen Lage dort .


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15.05.2015 um 17:43
@yummi
Welche slawischen Länder meint du damit?
Und was verstehst du unter "nationalistisches Problem"?
Haben die Franzosen das nicht auch gerade?

Kommt doch immer darauf an, wie extrem man auf "Nation" reagiert.


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15.05.2015 um 17:49
@Phantomeloi

Er meinte wohl, dass die anderen Schuld sind, wenn Journalisten am hellichten Tage gelyncht werden und so lustige Nazi-Gesetze wie Lustration neu-aufgelegt werden, weil sie so'n schlechtes Beispiel abgeben oder Vorbild als EU Mitgliedsstaaten bzw. Weissrussland.


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15.05.2015 um 18:04
Wikipedia: Godwin

“As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.”

„Mit zunehmender Länge einer Online-Diskussion nähert sich die Wahrscheinlichkeit für einen Vergleich mit den Nazis oder Hitler dem Wert Eins an.“

– Mike Godwin


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15.05.2015 um 18:12


The Israel Lobby Protects Neo-Nazis in Ukraine.

AlterNet has learned that an amendment to the 2015 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) that would have forbidden US assistance, training and weapons to neo-Nazis and other extremists in Ukraine was kept out of the final bill by the Republican-led House Rules Committee. Introduced by Democratic Representative John Conyers, the amendment was intended to help tamp down on violent confrontations between Ukrainian forces and Russian separatists. (Full text of the amendment embedded at the end of this article).

A USA Today/Pew poll conducted in April while the NDAA was being debated found that Americans opposed by more than 2 to 1 providing the Ukrainian government with arms or other forms of military assistance.

If passed, Conyers' amendment would have explicitly barred those found to have offered “praise or glorification of Nazism or its collaborators, including through the use of white supremacist, neo-Nazi, or other similar symbols” from receiving any form of support from the US Department of Defense.

The amendment was presented by congressional staffers to lobbyists from Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and the Simon Wiesenthal Center, two of the country’s largest established Jewish pressure groups. Despite their stated mission to combat anti-Semitism and violent extremism, the ADL and Wiesenthal Center refused to support Jeffries and Conyers’ proposal.

According to Democratic sources in Congress, staffers from the ADL’s Washington office and the Simon Wiesenthal Center rejected the amendment on the grounds that right-wing Ukrainian parties like Svoboda with documented records of racist extremism had “moderated their rhetoric.” An ADL lobbyist insisted that “the focus should be on Russia,” while the Wiesenthal Center pointed to meetings between far-right political leaders in Ukraine and the Israeli embassy as evidence that groups like Svoboda and Right Sector had shed their extremism.

The ADL’s Washington office and the Simon Wiesenthal Center did not respond to numerous requests by email and telephone for comment.

http://www.alternet.org/world/how-israel-lobby-protected-ukrainian-neo-nazis



Den kennt man ja schon. Gerade noch mal drüber gestolpert.


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15.05.2015 um 18:35
@Pfeifenphysik

Genau wie in Deutschland sind die Putinversteher in den USA (wie z.B. alternet) identisch mit den
Assad-Verstehern in den USA

alternet über den Syrienkrieg:
We, the People, Can Stop the War with Syria
http://www.alternet.org/we-people-can-stop-war-syria
AlterNet Comics: Matt Davies on the Deaths That Cross the Line in Syriat
http://www.alternet.org/comics/alternet-comics-matt-davies-deaths-cross-line-syria


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15.05.2015 um 18:35
@Phantomeloi
So gut wie alle? Ich kenne kein slawisches Land was kein vehementes nationalistisches Problem hat. Die Problematik besteht weniger daran, dass es eine Partei gibt, die rassistisch denkt, sondern sich das quer durch die Parteienlandschaft zieht. Lichtblicke sind für mich nur Polen und die tschechische Republik. Vetternwirtschaft hier, Korruption da. Wenig liberalistisches Denken, was auch der Grund ist, warum man das Gefühl hat, dass der Osten generell nicht nur technisch , sondern auch gesellschaftlich hinterher hingt. Und wenn man mich fragt, die ukrainischen Nazis und die russischen Nazis nehmen sich nicht viel, gesellschaftlich spielen eben diese eine untergeordnete große Rolle.


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