JFK - Attentataufdeckung

Africanus schrieb:Weder a) noch b) trafen bei Kennedy zu, weshalb es sich bei der Wunde im Hals nicht um eine Eintrittswunde handeln kann

Africanus schrieb:a) Die Kugel trifft auf eine unbekleidete Stelle des Körpers. In diesem Fall bildet sich der Abstreifring auf dem Hautgewebe.

Africanus schrieb:b) Die Kugel trifft auf eine bekleidete Stelle des Körpers. In diesem Fall bildet sich der Abstreifring auf der Obersten Textilschicht, auf welche die Kugel traf.

Africanus schrieb:Er ist vor allem kein Abstreifring! Du bringst hier zwei Dinge durcheinander, die zwar bei Schusswunden auftreten, aber eben vollkommen unterschiedliche Effekte sind

dem Projektil anhaftende ölige Rückstände

Africanus schrieb: In diesem Fall bildet sich der Abstreifring auf der Obersten Textilschicht, auf welche die Kugel traf.

Einschuss:

...

Abstreifring (fehlt nach Kleiderschuss)

Zirkellogik: WEIL du dir keine Eintrittswunde vorstellen kannst trafen weder a) noch b) deiner Meinung nach nicht zu

Die Frage bleibt, wie ein eine Kugel bei einem Schuss von hinten nur die Vorderseite der Krawatte gestreift haben kann

Schön! Ein Abstreifring bezieht sich nur auf Rückstände aus dem Lauf und Schmauchbestandteile, also Öl-, Rauch und Pulverrückstände

...

die Frage nach nach Metallpartikeln bleibt davon unberührt

Africanus schrieb:
In diesem Fall bildet sich der Abstreifring auf der Obersten Textilschicht, auf welche die Kugel traf.

Einschuss:

...

Abstreifring (fehlt nach Kleiderschuss)

https://www.klinikum.uni-heidelberg.de/fileadmin/inst_rechts_verkehrsmed/pdfs/schuss-20070504.pdf (Archiv-Version vom 20.04.2023)

Auch ein aspekt, der eher gegen die single bullet spricht:


Frame 224 of the Zapruder film shows the right lapel of Connally’s jacket flapping outward. This movement cannot have been caused by the same bullet that caused President Kennedy’s throat wound, for two reasons. Firstly, the bullet that passed through the front of Connally’s jacket did so several inches from the lapel. Secondly, too much time elapsed between Kennedy’s throat wound and Connally’s lapel flap. The minimum time for a neurological reaction to an external stimulus is 200 milliseconds, or between three and four frames of the Zapruder film. Because frame 224 shows Kennedy’s hands already moving toward his throat, the wound to which he is responding cannot have occurred any later than frame 221. A hypothetical bullet fired from the rifle found on the sixth floor would have travelled at least 400 feet between the time of Kennedy’s throat wound and the time of Connally’s lapel flap. The distance between Kennedy and Connally was about three feet.

Africanus schrieb:Falsch, a) und b) trafen nicht zu, weil die Fakten, welche auch Du geliefert hast, dafür sprechen.

Africanus schrieb:Nein, siehe die Quelle, die ich verlinkt hatte

Africanus schrieb:Für mich stellt sich eher die Frage, worauf Du hinaus willst!

welche Fakten "sprechen dafür"? Das müsstest du schon näher erläutern

was spricht dagegen dass Kugelfragmente aus einem Austritt herausgeschleudert werden können? Oder dass eine Kugel beim Eintritt in die Krawatte Partikel hinterlässt?

Wie soll bei einem Schuss von hinten nur die der Kugel abgewandten Seite beschädigt worden sein?

Africanus schrieb:Beleidige nicht andere Diskutanten durch Deine Spielchen! Du weißt sehr wohl wovon ich geschrieben habe, weil Du selbst es mehrfach gepostet hast: Ich habe mich auf die Metallrückstände, welche am Loch in Kennedys Jacke gefunden wurden, bezogen und auf Deine Aussage, es habe solche Rückstände am Krawattenknoten/Hemdkragen nicht gegeben.

Africanus schrieb:Ich verstehe ehrlich gesagt den Zusammenhang nicht.

Original anzeigen (0,2 MB)

Larry Hancock, in Someone Would Have Talked, describes the FBI program called AMSANTA:

The program was initiated by the FBI as part of its effort targeting the FPCC as a subversive group and involved the CIA in briefing, debriefing and possibly monitoring travel of assets through Mexico City to and from Cuba. The program began in late 1962, had one major success in 1963 and appears to have been abruptly terminated in fall 63.

This project used FBI informants to develop intelligence on Cuba and the Castro regime. We know little about the overall project but in July 1963, one such asset used his FPCC connections to obtain a visa from the Cuban government and to travel illegally to and from Cuba (apparently from Mexico City on Cubana airlines).

According to John Newman (Oswald and the CIA), The CIA, led by David Phillips and James McCord (of Watergate fame), began monitoring the FPCC in 1961.

In December 1962, the CIA jointed with the FBI in the AMSANTA project.

A Sept 63 Memo divulged an FBI/CIA plan to use FPCC fake material to embarrass Cuba.

On April 27, 1961, J. Edgar Hoover himself ordered his agents to focus on pro-Castro activists, stating that the FPCC illustrated "the capacity of a nationality group organization to mobilize its efforts in such a situation so as to arrange demonstrations and influence public opinion.” Under orders from Hoover, Cartha DeLoach began a red-baiting campaign against the FPCC during May 1961. According to Bill Simpich: "As part of his counterintelligence responsibilities, DeLoach developed a Mass Media Program that included over 300 newspaper reporters, columnists, radio commentators, and television news investigators."

In April, 1961, Dr. Enrique Lorenzo Luaces told Army Intelligence that Robert Taber introduced him to “Lt. Harvey Oswald, an arms expert” while having drinks at Sloppy Joe's Bar in Havana. Tony Varona later testified that he believed Lee Harvey Oswald was in Cuba during 1961.

monstra schrieb:Woraus ergibt sich eigentlich, dass Lee Harvey Oswald seinen Ausweis am Tatort des Mordes an dem Polizisten zurückgelassen haben soll?

monstra schrieb:Vielen Dank!

Also nur der Film.

OpLibelle schrieb:Das ergibt sich aus Fehlinterpretation von Filmmaterial vom Tatort und falschen Erinnerungen von Polizisten

OpLibelle schrieb:Wenn es stimmen würde, hätte man Oswald darauf festgenagelt.

monstra schrieb:Der Mord am Polizisten Tippit und die Umstände der Festnahme Lee Harveys Oswald im Kino sprechen stark für eine Tatbeteiligung von Oswald am Kennedy-Mord.

First off, there was NO
SUCH roll call (WCR, p. 156; VII, p. 382), and
secondly, LHO was far from the only person missing from the TSBD
after
the assassination (the time they claimed to have taken the roll
call).


This was looked into and they found the following:


1) 75 employees worked in the building on 11/22/63 (based on the
names
given to them by Truly). (XXII, pp.632-86)
2) 48 were OUTSIDE at 12:30 PM. (Ibid)
3) 5 did NOT report for work that day.(Ibid, pp. 632 & 676)
4) Many of the remaining employees in the building left after the
shots had been fired and ceased. (Ibid, pp. 632, 645, 655-656, 665)
Add in the fact many were NOT allowed back in to the TSBD after the
assassination you have a slew of people "missing" by the time the
police began searching the building. LHO wasn't even the only one
missing among the ones who worked on the sixth floor that day as it
was said that LHO was NOT "the only one who didn't show up and
COULDN'T be accounted for." (VI, p. 321)
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/missing_employees.htm

monstra schrieb am 22.03.2018: Warum soll die Eintrittswunde am EOP sein?

Upon reflecting the scalp multiple complete fracture lines are seen to radiate from... the smaller wound at the occiput.

J.D. Tippet – it would probably be news to most folks that in addition to his security job at the BBQ restaurant, Tippet had worked off duty security at the Stevens Park theater, owned by Manuel Avila. What makes that especially interesting is that Avila was very much connected to Cuban exile activities at the House on Harlandale. The theater was reportedly a Spanish language show, attracting Latino’s and Cuban exiles as well. Reportedly in addition to the movies downstairs, a prostitution business went on using facilities associated with the theater. Even more interesting is the apparent rumor that Tippet got into some problems involving one of the girls working that side of the business.

Avila’s activities had included serving as a translator for Cuban exiles in Dallas, apparently including visitors. Amelia Diaz, who had immigrated from Cuba in 1959, worked for Avila, was an active DRE supporter and reportedly moved into the House on Harlandale during the relatively brief period in which it was used by DRE and Alpha 66 members. Victor Murillo, another individual who did volunteer translations, he lived in a house with Domingo Benavides.

bredulino schrieb:Da es nicht Tippits Brieftasche war, wessen soll es dann gewesen sein, wenn nicht Oswald?

bredulino schrieb:Soll es neben Oswald und Tippit zum Zeitpunkt des Tatorts eine dritte Person am Tatort gegeben haben?

monstra schrieb:FBI-Mann Robert M. Barrett glaubt, der sagt, ein Captain Westbrook der Dallas Police habe am Tatort eine Brieftasche in der Hand gehalten und ihn, Barrett, gefragt, ob ihm die Namen Oswald oder Hidell etwas sagen würden

OpLibelle schrieb:Ich halte es für das Naheliegenste, dass es sich um die Brieftasche irgendeines Zeugen handelt.

monstra schrieb:Keinen großen Sinn aus VT-Sicht ergibt es jedenfalls, eine ANDERE Brieftasche mit Oswalds Personalien am Tatort von der Ermordung Tippits zurückzulassen, um diesen den Mord in die Schuhe zu schieben - und zugleich Oswalds ECHTE Brieftasche im Polizeiauto aus der Tasche zu ziehen und dies als offizielle Version zu vertreten. Schließlich wäre die Brieftasche der schlagende Beweis gewesen.

monstra schrieb: Und sie landete schnell im Dallas Police Departement und wurde dem festgenommenen Oswald zugeordnet. Bei den Methoden der Dallas Police kann ich mir gut vorstellen, dass ein Officer wahrheitswidrig behauptet hat, er habe sie Oswald im Auto abgenommen, damit dessen Identität außer Frage stand.

monstra schrieb:Dann wäre die Brieftasche ein wichtiges Beweisstück für die Beteiligung Oswalds am Mord und es ist nicht verständlich, warum es keine offizielle Sicherung dieses Beweises gibt.

monstra schrieb:Die Brieftasche dürften einige Beamten am Tatort gesehen haben. Es wäre merkwürdig, wenn sie stillschweigend die Story von der Gesäßtasche hingenommen hätten, wenn sie wirklich Oswalds Personalien gesehen hätten.

The Thin Blue Line (1988) is a documentary film concerning the murder of a Texas police officer who had stopped a car for a routine traffic citation. The documentary presents testimony suggesting that the police altered, fabricated, and suppressed evidence to convict the man they wanted to be guilty, in spite of evidence to the contrary. The Thin Blue Line is American filmmaker Errol Morris' third film.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Thin_Blue_Line

monstra schrieb:Andererseits sind die Erinnerungen von Mr. Barrett über 30 Jahre alt.

Original anzeigen (1,0 MB)

Original anzeigen (1,1 MB)

The ABC story concludes, “Rookstool says the testimony of Barrett and Croy, Tippit's billfold, and the WFAA film prove that Oswald's wallet was at the scene of the policeman's murder.”

monstra schrieb: Was aber unwahrscheinlich ist, ist die Existenz von zwei Brieftaschen Lee Harvey Oswalds, eine am Tatort und die andere in seiner Hose.

The history of Oswald’s wallets can only be described with three words: Smoke and mirrors. Only after the release of the Warren Report did the FBI evidence inventory show three wallets for Oswald: B-1 (the arrest wallet), 114 (brown billfold) and 382 (red billfold). No wallets were found at his rooming house. No wallets are listed as recovered from the two searches of 11/22 and 11/23 at his wife’s residence. Two wallets were supposedly recovered at his wife’s home, but they are not listed in the search warrant affidavits and I can’t find any explanation for how they entered the official Dallas inventory.

Wallet #1: November 22, 1963 @ 1:42 pm--wallet found at Tippit murder scene; contained identification of Oswald/Hidell; observed and handled by DPD Captain Westbrook, Officers Owens, and Doughty; observed by FBI Agent Barrett; filmed by WFAA cameraman Ron Reiland. Neither this wallet nor the contents were inventoried, cataloged noted on either DPD or FBI inventory lists or photographed. This wallet was last "seen" at the Tippit murder scene and thereafter disappeared. None of the above named DPD or FBI officers volunteered information to the Warren Commission about this wallet.

Wallet #2: November 22, 1963 @ 2:00 pm--arrest wallet--taken from Oswald's left rear pocket by Detective Paul Bentley in route to DPD headquarters. Four DPD officers--Carroll, Hill, Lyons and Walker accompanied Bentley and Oswald to DPD headquarters. All were aware that Bentley had removed Oswald's wallet and looked at the contents. Neither the wallet nor its contents were catalogued or photographed by DPD upon returning to DPD headquarters. DPD photographed the contents of the wallet on 11/23/63. The FBI designated wallet as exhibit B-1. The origin of the above described wallets is known and verified by witnesses. The following two wallets are in the National Archives--FBI exhibit #114 and #382--but their origin is unknown:

Wallet #3: November 22, 1963--brown billfold; FBI #114

Wallet #4: November 22, 1963--red billfold; FBI #382

Both wallets were allegedly found at the Paine residence. DPD officers Rose, Adamcik and Stovall participated in the search. Neither wallet was listed on the their handwritten inventory list nor on the DPD typewritten inventory list (WC exhibit "Stovall A & B"). Neither wallet can be found in photographs of Oswald's possessions taken at DPD headquarters. There is no evidence either of these wallets were found at the Paine's. These wallets first appear on the joint DPD/FBI inventory list of Nov 26,1963 as items #114 and #382.

They were later photographed by the FBI in Washington, DC and are now at the National Archives. During Warren Commission hearings, no DPD officers were asked about nor volunteered information concerning wallets allegedly found at the Paine house.

A 5th wallet was found in the dresser in Marina's room at the Paine residence:

Wallet #5: November 24, 1963--Marina telephoned Ruth Paine and asked Mrs. Paine to bring some of her clothes, some baby clothes and bottles, her husband's wedding ring and wallet. On Monday, November 25, a Secret Service man brought her the wallet, which contained $180.00.

Identifying the wallets is easy. The difficulty comes in trying to trace the wallets from their origin to the DPD and FBI with an incomplete paper trail.

The problem originated with the two wallets found by the Dallas Police--one at the Tippit murder scene, the other on Oswald's person. If the public became aware that Oswald's wallet was found by police at the scene of the murder and then the police removed a second wallet from Oswald on the way to DPD headquarters, that would be difficult to explain. It would become even more difficult to explain the two identifications, one for Oswald and one for Hidell, found in both of the wallets. Oswald's possessions were secretly taken to Washington DC on November 23rd and returned to the Dallas Police on November 24th. On that day Service Agent Robert Stuart examined the contents of Oswald's arrest wallet and FBI agent Bookhout was furnished DPD photographs of the contents. But the wallet and contents found at the scene of the Tippit murder (#l) were neither inventoried nor photographed by the Dallas Police; this wallet (and contents) disappeared.

When Oswald's possessions were again turned over to the FBI, on November 26, 1963, neither the wallet found at the Tippit murder scene nor the wallet taken from Oswald was listed on the joint DPD/FBI inventory (WC exhibit #2113). There were, however, two other wallets listed--item #114 and #382. These wallets supposedly came from the Paine residence, yet neither wallet appears on either of the DPD inventory lists nor was photographed by the DPD. The obvious question is, were these two wallets (#114 and #382) substituted for the wallets found at the Tippit murder scene and the wallet taken from Oswald?

An FBI memo of 11/29/63 states: "The Police Department failed to photograph the contents of the wallet before turning it over to our Dallas Office and requested that they be furnished immediately photographs of these items." We know the Dallas Police provided photographs of the contents of Oswald's arrest wallet to FBI Agent Bookhout on November 24, 1963. Could the FBI memo be referring to another wallet--perhaps the one found at the Tippit murder scene? 0 Did the Oswald arrested by Dallas Police carry two wallets with two sets of identification on November 22nd? Did he pass a wallet, containing Oswald/Hidell identification, to Officer Tippit through the open car window? Did he then shoot Tippit, got arrested at the Texas Theater, and have a second wallet, with Oswald/Hidell identification, removed from his left rear packet by DPD Detective Paul Bentley? Did he own all five wallets?

bredulino schrieb:was dann eine Lüge gewesen und vor Gericht nicht unbedingt gut angekommen wäre.